149 replies to this topic

[Thrash]

just gonna leave this here since there hasnt been a topic about it yet.. you can all comment, ill just eat popcorn

 

http://www.globalres...rorists/5479099

[ᗅᗺᗷᗅ]

Ha.
 
The issue is that Russian forces are attacking the non-ISIS rebels who are fighting Assad. So yeah, the "goodguys," so to speak. More importantly, by propping up Assad Russia gains a foothold in the Middle East, something that is not in the United States' or the West's strategic interests. Putin's a smart guy. He knows the US is going into an election cycle, so there will be very little political will for a large-scale military intervention. That's the problem with having regularly scheduled elections the way we do.
 
On the other hand, even though the Russians are not hitting ISIS targets, by targeting Assad's other enemies it frees up Syrian forces to focus on ISIS. In the absence of a larger American military presence, this might be the best option. Yes, Assad is a bad guy. But he's better than the Islamic State. Sometimes you have to settle for the lesser of two evils.

Meanwhile the United States stands idly by and does nothing while Turkey bombs the hell out of the Kurds, who frankly seem like the only thing close to real "goodguys" in the region. Nice, huh?

 

"When you play the game of thrones, you win or you die. There is no middle ground." –Cersei Lannister

[Manoka]

Yeah, ISIS is worse than Assad, except that Assad has killed hundreds of thousands of people while ISIS has killed a few thousand, has a gigantic army with aircraft, tanks, armored vehicles, support of several major governments, advanced technology, and has used nerve gas, all the while displacing 9 million people and creating 4 million refugees, but ISIS, a bunch of militia men with a handful of stolen Iraqi equipment and largely black market Ak-47's, who numbers in the 10's of thousands at best, and has killed thousands by comparison, must be the lesser evil. 

 

I don't even. Also the idea that they were made by the CIA, wut? I just hope common sense prevails. 

[Lord Draculea]

Common sense never prevails... (Or, better said, it does sometimes, by pure chance.) And there's currently nothing close to a concept of "the right thing to do", when it comes to Middle East.

 

If we look at it from a broader perspective, it is clear (at least to me) that America wants Russia involved in this game, for a number of reasons (that I mentioned in another thread). Short-term, or from a tactical perspective, Putin seems to be the hero of the day, one who is about to  "save the world" while the Americans (not to mention Europe) have achieved nothing or have only made things worse. I was amazed by how much Christiane Amanpour from CNN seemed to be impressed by Putin's recent moves... I couldn't disagree more with her view. From a strategical perspective, Putin is heading towards a full disaster, just like Friedman prescribed in his "100 Years". He has just opened a second front (besides that in Ukraine, at NATO's border), and more fronts for him are about to follow sooner or later in his own back yard, in Caucasus (unless we want to think that the "Russian" Muslims are going to just sit and watch the great tzar butchering their "brothers" into Jihad)...

[Haflinger]

Wait, Al Nusra is backed by the CIA?

 

Next week: the Mexican druglords are backed by the DEA. I mean, come on. I think the US is largely responsible for the mess in Syria right now, but they didn't create it on purpose.

 

That would just be ridiculous.

[Molagbal]

Woah they killed our whooping 5 "moderate" rebels?  

Edited by Molagbal, 04 October 2015 - 12:58 AM.

[Redezra]

Personally, I think Russia is on to something. Supporting Assad is the quickest way to achieve a western friendly govt and a stabilised Syria. Somewhere we can put the refugees back in.

 

Yes yes, freedom is great and all but expediency is worth something too.

[Haflinger]

It's not just freedom, this guy was massacring his own civilians. I know Russia doesn't think that counts for much, they want to see Yanukovych back in the Ukraine, but it matters and it's a terrible way to foster any kind of peace in the region.

 

'Course peace in the middle east isn't what Russia wants. Radical Muslims thrive in the current chaotic environment and they're mostly angry with the west.

[Thrash]

Wait, Al Nusra is backed by the CIA?

Yes.

Next week: the Mexican druglords are backed by the DEA.

Fast and Furious

 

Everything that seems irrational is not always that.

[Lord Draculea]

Everything that seems irrational is not always that.

 

I couldn't agree more.

[Lord Draculea]

Personally, I think Russia is on to something. Supporting Assad is the quickest way to achieve a western friendly govt and a stabilised Syria. Somewhere we can put the refugees back in.

 

Yes yes, freedom is great and all but expediency is worth something too.

 

How can we think that Putin wants stability in Syria, when he is currently building an anti-Sunni coalition? Syria is a Sunni-majority country. Putin has called for the implication of Iran, a Shiite country. How do you think Saudi Arabia (the biggest Sunni power) feels about it? Things are as fuzzy as they can be, and they're going to stay that way for a while.

[HordeLorde]

Weve all seen those episodes of X-men guys. You know the ones where the brotherhood is fighting the X-Men when all of a sudden (insert badass supervillain here) shows up and all of the sudden the two patriarchs  go from reffering to eachother as "Magneto" and "Professor X" to "Eric" and "Charles" then one or the other is corrupted/killed/deemed powerless and once the big baddie is taken care of they continue fighting each other..... Thats the kinda clusterfuck of a situation the middle east is right now. Now if only the X-Men were real they could swoop in and kick ISIS butt

[Lord Draculea]

Yeah, which reminds me that it's only natural that the West (US on particular) is bound to be the most hated, as it's perceived as the most powerful force, thus the most feared. I guess Russia comes second.

[the rebel]

It's not just freedom, this guy was massacring his own civilians. I know Russia doesn't think that counts for much, they want to see Yanukovych back in the Ukraine, but it matters and it's a terrible way to foster any kind of peace in the region.

'Course peace in the middle east isn't what Russia wants. Radical Muslims thrive in the current chaotic environment and they're mostly angry with the west.

When the rebels choose to hide and fight in towns and cities, civilians die. If that's an accepted excuse for Israel then its an accepted excuse for Syria. You can't be flip flopping the US government.

Though its hilarious for the US to call out Russia's actions, at least they're assisting an ally and not illegally bombing another country like the US which is basically a declaration of war in everything but name.

[Manoka]

It's not just freedom, this guy was massacring his own civilians. I know Russia doesn't think that counts for much, they want to see Yanukovych back in the Ukraine, but it matters and it's a terrible way to foster any kind of peace in the region.

'Course peace in the middle east isn't what Russia wants. Radical Muslims thrive in the current chaotic environment and they're mostly angry with the west.

When the rebels choose to hide and fight in towns and cities, civilians die. If that's an accepted excuse for Israel then its an accepted excuse for Syria. You can't be flip flopping the US government.

Though its hilarious for the US to call out Russia's actions, at least they're assisting an ally and not illegally bombing another country like the US which is basically a declaration of war in everything but name.

Israel hasn't killed hundreds of thousands of innocent people, nor have they deliberately targeted the civilians. Nor have they used things like nerve gas. 

 

It's completely different. Assad started his massacres before the civil war started, the civil war started because Assad went on a genocidal rampage and refuses to stop. It isn't something that just happened during it, it is the cause of this problem. 

[the rebel]

Lol Manoka talking shit and spreading lies like usual, no surprise there then.

[Manoka]

Lol Manoka talking shit and spreading lies like usual, no surprise there then.

So, it's a lie that Israel hasn't killed hundreds of thousands, used nerve gas, or started the conflict?

 

Yeah, whatever bro. 

 

You simply saying I'm "lying" doesn't make it so.

[ᗅᗺᗷᗅ]

This is just international politics, guys. It's how the game is played.

 

I agree with Draculea that Putin seems to playing straight into Friedman's 100 Years narrative. Maybe he read the book too. But yes, it strikes me that he (Putin) is spreading himself awfully thin. And no, Russia's 16 million Muslims are not likely to be happy about Putin slaughtering their coreligionists. Those smart bomb videos are not going to play well in Grozny. Then again, maybe that's what Putin wants. Maybe he hopes that Russian intervention in Syria will stir up the radicals in Chechnya, Dagestan, and elsewhere, and give him the opportunity to lay the smackdown on them once and for all. If so there's a good chance it could blow up in his face.

 

If I were in charge of US foreign policy, I might be tempted to let the Russians take the lead in Syria. Let them be the target of every extremist's ire for a while. Syria could easily turn into Putin's Afghanistan.

 

Now I'm in the mood to watch the movie The Beast.

 

[the rebel]

If I were in charge of US foreign policy, I might be tempted to let the Russians take the lead in Syria. Let them be the target of every extremist's ire for a while. Syria could easily turn into Putin's Afghanistan.

The extremists would just run away with their tail in between their legs to some other country. For the extremists their target will always be those that support Israel or US war on terror... I mean war on the Arab world.

[ᗅᗺᗷᗅ]

Their target will be whoever is waging war on the Muslim world. If that's Russia, the ire will spread to them. Contrary to right-wing media's breathless assertions, they do not "hate us for our freedoms." They hate us because we fuck with them.