110 replies to this topic

[PrinceVegeta]

This says it better:

XD!

[Manoka]

The absorbed energy warms the surface. Simple presentations of the greenhouse effect, such as the idealized greenhouse model, show this heat being lost as thermal radiation. The reality is more complex: the atmosphere near the surface is largely opaque to thermal radiation (with important exceptions for "window" bands), and most heat loss from the surface is by sensible heat and latent heat transport. Radiative energy losses become increasingly important higher in the atmosphere largely because of the decreasing concentration of water vapor, an important greenhouse gas. It is more realistic to think of the greenhouse effect as applying to a "surface" in the mid-troposphere, which is effectively coupled to the surface by a lapse rate.

Pretty much what I said.

[Redezra]

Yeah, except that it's not.

I've already got stuff from NASA, who doesn't think it's happening, the EPA is upset it's included since most of the carbon dioxide stuff by the IPCC is still unsubstantiated, and even the IPCC's own inconsistencies, but to be thorough I'm getting as many sources as possible and disproving each little thing etc.


But go ahead and plz tell me how carbon dioxide levels magically rise temperature.

How do YOU think it works?

NASA?

http://pubs.giss.nas...s/ha05510d.html
http://www.nasa.gov/...ming-links.html

Sk-dush.

Guess what? Carbon dioxide is created by fossil fuel consumption (gasp!)

Methane is created by a very large number of things, including industrial processes and livestock (Shock!)

These are both greenhouse gases (no wai!)

Greenhouse gases do this: (venus by the way)

We have produced an exponential amount of both gases over the last century due to our rapidly expanding population. We have reduced the re-uptake (and in fact *increased* output substantially) by deforesting large areas, and defoiling huge areas for sprawling cities.

If you put a shitload of gas into the atmosphere.... and it's very clear that this sort of thing causes heat to go up due to the greenhouse effect... then one and one equals...

Wait

No way

NO WAY

Global Warming!


Now go back to school Manoka.

[ᗅᗺᗷᗅ]

The absorbed energy warms the surface. Simple presentations of the greenhouse effect, such as the idealized greenhouse model, show this heat being lost as thermal radiation. The reality is more complex: the atmosphere near the surface is largely opaque to thermal radiation (with important exceptions for "window" bands), and most heat loss from the surface is by sensible heat and latent heat transport. Radiative energy losses become increasingly important higher in the atmosphere largely because of the decreasing concentration of water vapor, an important greenhouse gas. It is more realistic to think of the greenhouse effect as applying to a "surface" in the mid-troposphere, which is effectively coupled to the surface by a lapse rate.

Pretty much what I said.

Wow, look, someone on the internet who thinks he knows more than every scientist in the world. Gee, you NEVER see that.

END SARCASM.

[PrinceVegeta]

And so ends the topic of the hurricane...and thus begins, a debate/argument that no one really cares about.

[Manoka]

Venus has 90 times our atmospheric density and is closer to us than the sun.

Also 90% of scientists don't believe it, you've heard that they did, but it's a misconception.


90% of people at the IPCC, who are not all scientists by the way, read over the report, but did not confirm anything.

Of those who do agree, agree with "climate change", but not necessarily global warming as a result of carbon dioxide.


If you actually look at the science, instead of listening to "most published" people, the story is clear.

[ᗅᗺᗷᗅ]

Indeed.

On the topic of Miss Sandy, I have the day off tomorrow. Wait, did I already say that? Anyway, it's now 1:55am and it is raining fairly heavily, but not outrageously so, at least not yet.

[Redezra]

Uhm, no Manoka, scientists actually believe it. Believe me, I hang around scientists. Generally they're more fun than losers on the internet.

You're making up shit, and that's annoying, given how much of a solid, insurmountable wall I can put up.

Stop. Annoying. Me.

Plus, on account of Venus, it once had water. And an earth-like atmosphere.... so.... basically... your argument is entirely misinformed.

[PrinceVegeta]

Poor Manoka. You guys keep feeding him. He's gonna become obese!

[Thrash]

Shut up with global warming crap.

It's windy, no rain yet.

[Jon32492]

Shut up with global warming crap.

The PRESIDENT has spoken.
(I had 41 notifications when I got up this morning, most from this thread.)

[Manoka]

Whow how do you get notifications from threads D:

Also Venus has literally 225,000 times our carbon dioxide levels and it took like 300 million years to get to it's point so like, if we're going to compare to that, the planet's temperature should go up about .008 degrees in 300 million years if we doubled our levels.


Also it should be noted that very little light or radiation gets through the first part of the planet's atmosphere.

So the traditional reflection infrared back up towards the mid troposphere to reflect infrared back down doesn't do anything at all.


In reality, the heat is mostly from volcanic gases that aren't otherwise absorbed by the oceans, which includes sulfur and carbon dioxide.

The oceans typically absorb this and when they're gone the planet literally warms up when the oceans can't absorb the heat and keep things at a regular temperature.


How much is this?

Well imagine if all the continental plate ridges in the ocean were exposed and those massive amounts of lava were dumping crap into the air; it could literally be 10,000 times what it is now. It also should be noted that there are a ton of craters on venus's surface still visible that have remained mostly unchanged. This means that, likely, their atmosphere either decreased first which let more in or there were a kabillion meteorites that smacked into it at this time, possibly causing the problems. Also the ocean's became the atmosphere, the water vapor warming the planet, and the lack of an ocean preventing the capture of volcanic heat and gases, and later on the hydrogen and oxygen dissociated from solar radiation when convection at the once cooler surface slowed down to almost nothing (which warmed up to match the mantle) meaning the carbon dioxide came after the run off global warming effect.


There is a fundamental limit to how much carbon dioxide can warm a planet, considering that it's more about distribution than thickness.

When we consider the fact it's more of a surface in the mid troposphere, that visible light passes through, that goes to the earth, which then about 50% is turned into infrared, that gets reflected back up, only to be reflected back down again, the thickness of the carbon dioxide in the mid troposphere has almost no impact. The carbon dioxide levels means hardly anything. Really it's more a feedback from when the oceans warm up; which typically follow a warming event. Assuming that it caused significant warming every other heat cycle would never stop warming, but obviously we've gotten colder since the Jurassic period; it should also be noted that it's believed carbon dioxide promotes the production of water vapor, but that is also turning out to be a lot less etc.


Venus is simply a terrible example for earth based global warming.

However I thought it would be funny to make a Venus based cybernations like game that had a global warming function in it much like global radiation lol

Edited by Manoka, 29 October 2012 - 11:18 AM.

[Evil Rudekker]

To completely change the topic:

* WINDS...NORTH INCREASING TO 35 KT GALES THIS AFTERNOON AND TO 50
KT STORM FORCE WINDS TONIGHT.

* SIGNIFICANT WAVES...8 TO 12 FT BUILDING TO 10 TO 14 FT TODAY...
TO 18 TO 23 FT TONIGHT...AND TO 20 TO 25 KT BY TUESDAY MORNING.

* OCCASIONAL WAVES...TO 19 FT THIS AFTERNOON...BUILDING TO 33 FT
BY TUESDAY MORNING.

This is for Lake Michigan.

33 foot waves on LAKE F***ING MICHIGAN

[Manoka]

http://science.time....ll-be-historic/

Apparently this is historic cause it will be hitting a cold wave which is supposed to amplify it's effects. O_o

[The Dark Empire]

Nothing like it since 1870

[Manoka]

Damn. O_o

New York really wants people to evacuate, they even said that "not leaving not only risks your own life, but rescue worker's lives"

Edited by Manoka, 29 October 2012 - 01:28 PM.

[Jon32492]

First time since 1888 the NY Stock Exchange close down due to weather. Just heard that on the news.

[ᗅᗺᗷᗅ]

It's an impressive storm, that's for sure. Over 1000 miles across right now, making it already one of the biggest storm on record, and some scientists are now saying it is the strongest storm ever measured north of North Carolina.

Welcome to our new global warming weather. Thrash's increasingly desperate-sounding denials aside ( ), this kind of thing is exactly what the global climate change models have been predicting for decades. More and bigger storms, more extreme weather on both ends. We're seeing it unfold before our eyes. And those of us of a certain age (me, Thrash, Haf) are old enough to remember when the weather was very different. Of course at this point there is nothing we can do to reverse it, we're simply going to have to adapt to it. And I'm sure we will -- we are a highly adaptable species, after all. But it won't be an easy transition, that's for sure. Expect more of this kind of thing.

[Manoka]

I really doubt it's a result of global warming.

But it is devastating D:

[The Dark Empire]

I really doubt it's a result of global warming.

But it is devastating D:

Many people doubted we'd put a man in the moon. They were wrong. Same applies here