146 replies to this topic

[Ellis]

sigh

Fine, Obama and Mitt Romney are off limits.

Agreed.
Not actual traitors.

Nixon though? A strong maybe.
I'd go so far as to call Reagan one.
But I digest....

Well you could put a strong case for Obama.

Constitutional definition of treason: Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort.

Make your case

[Manoka]

By hurting us they help our enemies; dum dum dum!

[ᗅᗺᗷᗅ]

Let's clear the air about a few things: Barack Obama is not a traitor, nor a Muslim, nor a socialist. He is, in fact, a fairly middle of the road, moderate Democrat with some very conservative leanings, especially when it comes to national security. He is a devout Christian who often reads Bible verses on his Blackberry (something which frankly makes me a little uncomfortable).

He does represent change, however. For one thing, he's the first black president, the significance of which cannot be understated. And his centrism is relative to the values of contemporary society, which in the past thirty years have shifted to the left. A clear majority of Americans, 54%, are now in favor of gay marriage, for example; as recently as 1992 it was only 20%. That's a huge change, and it's not just gay marriage. Attitudes in general are far more progressive than just a few decades ago. As a nation we have become increasingly secular, increasingly diverse, and increasingly "liberal." It's happened fast, and it makes a lot of people, especially older people and those in more socially conservative parts of the country, uncomfortable.

Now, Barack Obama did not bring about this change; in fact he is a product of it. But he is also a powerful symbol, and as a result he has become a target for those on the right who want to turn back the clock, or, as journalist Matt Taibbi put it, to take their ball and go home. They want things to be how they used to be, or more precisely, how they imagine things used to be. Barack Obama's presence is a constant reminder that the world is a much more complicated and frightening place. And that is why they hate him.

[Manoka]

Or it could just be all the other stuff he did and limited stuff he's passed but, he's okay imo.

[ᗅᗺᗷᗅ]

Well, one of the problems is that he had such a meteoric rise, from state senator to president in four years, that there was a sense of his coming from "nowhere," and that people hadn't had a chance to get to know him. Conversely, his very newness was part of his appeal -- he was seen as not part of the Washington crowd.

PBS' Frontline has an excellent special about Obama and Romney, "The Choice 2012." I highly recommend it.

[Manoka]

Eh, I'm pretty sure I'm not gonna vote for Romney, unless he suddenly changes and even then, he's so flip floppity, so it probs doesn't matter, but lol

[ᗅᗺᗷᗅ]

As long as you understand that a vote for Romney is a vote to put these guys in charge of the country. This is not partisan hyperbole, it's simple fact. Mitt Romney may be a political flip-flopper, but he does have one unshakable core belief: his faith in the Mormon church. The word "devout" doesn't even begin to cover it. He is a zealot who unquestioningly follows the dictates of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. They have already turned Utah into a de facto theocracy; they would be more than happy to do the same to the country.

[PrinceVegeta]

I frankly wouldn't care if the Christian's took over. I'd get more Jehovah witnesses and Mormans to come to my door so I can turn them into Agnostics.

But as a question to Jorost, from your point of view, why would you hate a Theocratic government? Just wanna see your personal feelings on it.

[ᗅᗺᗷᗅ]

If you have to ask, then you don't know what theocracy means. See Iran.

[PrinceVegeta]

I know what a Theocracy is. But Iran is different. That's Muslim. I'm talking about the Christians. Two different religions here.

[Phate]

I know what a Theocracy is. But Iran is different. That's Muslim. I'm talking about the Christians. Two different religions here.

Not really. Fundamentalist Christians are not much better than Fundamentalist Muslims. And there is a lot of overlap between the two.

[PrinceVegeta]

You know, yeah, that is quite right come to think of it. The two are very similar.

Oh well, guess it's just not for everyone. Like I said, I really wouldn't care too much, unless I was affected personally, which would happen without a doubt, but it depends on what exactly was effective. Such as a right and such. I know, kinda selfish but...

[Manoka]

Yeah... he's a devout Mormon but attacking him for Mormonism would be like attacking him for being a Muslim, which doesn't really make any sense.

Do I think the religion will influence him to make decisions? Yeah, but I think he'll also see the rational and logical side of things as well, as helping people has positive benefits regardless of inherent or even spiritual meaning.


But I'm not gonna vote for him, and essentially any tax cuts he has in mind Obama is gonna do, too.

[King Biscuit]

A vote for one is a vote for the other.
I am an Unamerican Conspiracy Theorist for saying so.
They are Globalist Puppets.
/thread

[ᗅᗺᗷᗅ]

Yeah... he's a devout Mormon but attacking him for Mormonism would be like attacking him for being a Muslim, which doesn't really make any sense.

Do I think the religion will influence him to make decisions? Yeah, but I think he'll also see the rational and logical side of things as well, as helping people has positive benefits regardless of inherent or even spiritual meaning.

Actually, it's nothing like that. The difference between Romney and Obama is that Romney really IS a Mormon. He wears magic underwear and swore an oath of vengeance against the United States government for the death of Joseph Smith (official doctrine says they no longer do this, but hidden cameras smuggled into Mormon temple rituals prove otherwise). It is not a question of his being "influenced" by religion -- he obeys it unquestioningly. The LDS church is a centralized, hierarchical command structure that demands blind obedience from its followers. A President Romney would take his marching orders from Salt Lake City.

And yes, if he were an equally devout fundamentalist Muslim I would also say that disqualified him from being president.

[ᗅᗺᗷᗅ]

I know what a Theocracy is. But Iran is different. That's Muslim. I'm talking about the Christians. Two different religions here.

Looks like you need to learn a little bit more about Mormonism, then.

[Manoka]

Yeah... he's a devout Mormon but attacking him for Mormonism would be like attacking him for being a Muslim, which doesn't really make any sense.

Do I think the religion will influence him to make decisions? Yeah, but I think he'll also see the rational and logical side of things as well, as helping people has positive benefits regardless of inherent or even spiritual meaning.

Actually, it's nothing like that. The difference between Romney and Obama is that Romney really IS a Mormon. He wears magic underwear and swore an oath of vengeance against the United States government for the death of Joseph Smith (official doctrine says they no longer do this, but hidden cameras smuggled into Mormon temple rituals prove otherwise). It is not a question of his being "influenced" by religion -- he obeys it unquestioningly. The LDS church is a centralized, hierarchical command structure that demands blind obedience from its followers. A President Romney would take his marching orders from Salt Lake City.

And yes, if he were an equally devout fundamentalist Muslim I would also say that disqualified him from being president.

Well I'm convinced.

Mitt Romney is el Pollo Diablo!

Edited by Manoka, 31 October 2012 - 03:46 PM.

[ᗅᗺᗷᗅ]

And as for this...

A vote for one is a vote for the other.
I am an Unamerican Conspiracy Theorist for saying so.
They are Globalist Puppets.
/thread

If there really is a "globalist" conspiracy, the United States is pulling the strings.

[ᗅᗺᗷᗅ]

Mitt Romney is el Pollo Diablo!

DEVIL CHICKEN!!!

[PrinceVegeta]

Lol. I love how the so called "Lord" doesn't have the nail holes in his hands.

That just goes to show it's just some Human sack of flesh.

Mormons are idiots, and they make actual non ritualistic Christians look bad. I would know, I used to be a Pentacostal Christian. Well if he wins, then we wait, and see what happens afterwards, if not, we see what Obama does afterwards.

If either one fucks up...then I will take it upon myself to lead the resistance! O-O

And then after the fighting, I will claim my rightful place, as KingVegeta, of the United Sovereign Provinces of America. THE USPA WILL BE FEARED THROUGHOUT THE WORLD!