151 replies to this topic

[PrinceVegeta]

[Redezra]

Daww, poor PV

[Haflinger]

I don't understand Taoism and so will not discuss it further. It's super weird.

Interestingly the American Heritage Dictionary appears to define god in a way that does not include devas and asuras, as they are not worshipped, and it indicates that that's a requirement.

[ᗅᗺᗷᗅ]

I'd say they're worshipped. Maybe not in quite the same way that Westerners think of "worshipping" Jesus, but any time people structure their lives around mythological entities I think you could make the argument that's worship.

[Haflinger]

Yeah, you could make that argument. I wouldn't do it but you could make that argument.

However it still doesn't apply to Buddhism. Devas and asuras in Buddhism are just there; they're kind of like an annoying bump on the road for a soul on the way to nirvana. (In Buddhism, only a human can achieve nirvana. A soul that has been reborn as a deva or an asura is incapable of reaching nirvana, and so will have to die and be reborn again as a human to have a chance at it.)

[Redezra]

Lol, yeah.


That's the part I found bullcrap the most. I'd respect it more if anyone could become enlightened

[ᗅᗺᗷᗅ]

Oh, so they're not "gods," they're just mystical beings who stand as obstacles in the quest for paradise? Close enough for government work. It's all superstitious nonsense.

[Haflinger]

They're not obstacles precisely. The whole of samsara is an obstacle.

A soul in samsara is in a cycle of being reborn. Every time it dies it gets a new physical form which is determined by its karma from its previous existence. A soul with bad karma is sent down to the lower forms until its bad karma is worked off essentially, then it gets reborn as a human. A soul with good karma is reborn as a deva or an asura, until its good karma gets used up and it gets reborn as a human.

The lower forms are not capable of higher thought and so cannot contemplate the nature of suffering, and thus are incapable of reaching nirvana. The higher forms do not experience suffering, and so are incapable of contemplating it and reaching nirvana. But truly understanding the nature of suffering is very hard even for a human, so most people get reborn.

[Redezra]

And this is why Karma is stupid.

[ᗅᗺᗷᗅ]

They're not obstacles precisely. The whole of samsara is an obstacle.

A soul in samsara is in a cycle of being reborn. Every time it dies it gets a new physical form which is determined by its karma from its previous existence. A soul with bad karma is sent down to the lower forms until its bad karma is worked off essentially, then it gets reborn as a human. A soul with good karma is reborn as a deva or an asura, until its good karma gets used up and it gets reborn as a human.

The lower forms are not capable of higher thought and so cannot contemplate the nature of suffering, and thus are incapable of reaching nirvana. The higher forms do not experience suffering, and so are incapable of contemplating it and reaching nirvana. But truly understanding the nature of suffering is very hard even for a human, so most people get reborn.

Either that or it's all nonsense. Guess which one I'm going with?

[Redezra]

I will say though, Zazen is amazingly useful.

[Haflinger]

Buddhism is full of really strange ideas some of which are warped forms of things that make sense in Hinduism (like karma) but I like the Noble Eightfold Path.