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Shooting in Aurora Colorado


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#1 King Hobbs

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Posted 21 July 2012 - 12:31 AM

Attached below are two avatars to wear in support of the victims and families affected by the shooting in Aurora, Colorado. For those who dont know, James Holmes, a PhD student at the University of Colorado, entered a midnight premiere showing of the new Batman movie, The Dark Night Rises, and opened fire on fans. Dressed in full tactical gear and armed with two pistols, a shotgun, and AR15 rifle with drum magazine, Holmes tossed in tear gas grenades before firing and hitting 70 people. 12 are reported dead so far. Holmes' apartment is also rumored to be booby trapped and police are reporting a multitude of wires to chemical and incendiary devices. Holmes is in police custody.

This^^^ is just a short summary and skips over a lot of facts. Not all the facts are even known yet. What is known is that the sitaution is ongoing and that the citizens of Aurora have been dealt a blow. Support them in their time of need.

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#2 Edward Reed

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Posted 21 July 2012 - 01:46 AM

I didn't realize the death total was so high, very sad to see. I love the batman and I hope those who are wounded can pull through and get back to living life.

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#3 Chancellor Gunn

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Posted 21 July 2012 - 09:04 AM

I didn't realize the death total was so high, very sad to see. I love the batman and I hope those who are wounded can pull through and get back to living life.

Yeah 12 dead and 50+ injured, including kids. Pretty horrible and as Thrash said in another thread, fucked up.

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#4 King Hobbs

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Posted 21 July 2012 - 12:52 PM

One of the confirmed dead was 6 years old.

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#5 ᗅᗺᗷᗅ

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Posted 21 July 2012 - 04:13 PM

The last I heard was 71 people shot, 12 dead. At least one child and one infant were shot.

I will not wear any avatar "in support of the families." No one from the families will be supported in any way by my doing so. The only person it helps is the person actually wearing it, who gets to feel good about himself while at the same time letting everyone know what a compassionate and socially conscious person they are. Self-serving, empty gestures will not raise the dead, nor will they prevent another tragedy like this from happening in the future. If we really wanted to make a difference we would enact rational gun laws in this country. Instead we cling to an ill-worded snippet of 18th century legislative boilerplate like it was holy writ.

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#6 The Dark Empire

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Posted 21 July 2012 - 08:39 PM

The last I heard was 71 people shot, 12 dead. At least one child and one infant were shot.

I will not wear any avatar "in support of the families." No one from the families will be supported in any way by my doing so. The only person it helps is the person actually wearing it, who gets to feel good about himself while at the same time letting everyone know what a compassionate and socially conscious person they are. Self-serving, empty gestures will not raise the dead, nor will they prevent another tragedy like this from happening in the future. If we really wanted to make a difference we would enact rational gun laws in this country. Instead we cling to an ill-worded snippet of 18th century legislative boilerplate like it was holy writ.

Sometimes the simple things are all we can do. Wearing this avatar may not make a difference but we wear it hoping that it will. Sometimes hope in the simplest things is what keeps us going. It makes us feel like there is hope among the chaos and confusion. One light may be small and may not be seen from a distance but it can still be seen by those close to it. And just maybe if those people care and hope too they will light up their own lights. Soon that small light has become a beacon seen for miles around. But without that first light no beacon can be created. Maybe we are just selfish (but aren't all good deeds if you think about it) but at least we believe we can make a difference.

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#7 ᗅᗺᗷᗅ

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Posted 21 July 2012 - 09:17 PM

Well, good for you. You can't, but sure, if it makes you feel good to try, then by all means. Personally I'd rather see a serious discussion about firearms policy (not here on the forums, but the country). Ah, but I'm just a cynical asshole. Don't listen to me. :tomato:

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#8 Redezra

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 07:14 PM

I don't support charities or warm fuzzies of any kind for similar reasons to Jorost.

That said, why did he have access to an automatic weapon? Oh wait, America. You know, I think the death toll would have been lessened if say, he only had a semi-auto pistol, or say, access to no guns at all.

That's the Australian perspective. And for a uniquely WA perspective: That asshole, we love Heath Ledger, how dare he insult him like that.

That is all. :(

#9 Haflinger

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 09:18 PM

Errr, before we get the whole thing out of proportion, he had an AR-15, which is a semi-auto. It's the semi-auto version of the M-16. Not what most people think of as an "automatic weapon" which would be the M-16.

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#10 Redezra

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 09:57 PM

...

Point is he had a fucking assault rifle. How the hell is that appropriate for anyone not in the god damn military?

#11 Haflinger

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Posted 23 July 2012 - 06:00 AM

Most people in the military would not describe the AR-15 as an assault rifle, due to the fact that it's, you know, semi-auto.

It's a pretty good gun for hunters actually.

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Posted 23 July 2012 - 09:44 AM

Is it really that important to quibble over semantics? (I'll wait while everyone gets over the shock of me of all people not wanting to quibble over semantics.) Whatever you call it, the AR-15 is a high capacity, military-style rifle capable of squeezing off rounds as fast as the user can pull the trigger. Not to mention all the other guns and weapons James Holmes had in his possession. The man was a walking arsenal. What possible justification is there for that?

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#13 Haflinger

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Posted 23 July 2012 - 11:00 AM

Well... She did ask what use it was. It's often used as a hunting rifle; it's fairly accurate and has a big enough bullet to kill animals without grinding them into a fine paste.

The real problem with this situation is not the individual guns he had in his possession, but rather the number of them and the tear gas. The guy was a walking arsenal, but each gun he was carrying (all bought legally) has a genuine use. Most were hunting guns essentially.

But, you know, if a man walks into a movie theatre with an assortment of guns all big enough to kill deer, and opens fire, you're going to have a horror show. But as far as I know nobody's sought to deal with this part of the issue: restrict the number of gun licenses people can hold.

The funny part about that is that the U.S. Constitution guarantees the right to bear arms, it does not guarantee an unlimited quantity of arms. You can bear arms perfectly fine with one rifle, in fact that's more in line with the traditional militia idea where that phrase comes from. You don't need an arsenal to do it.

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#14 ᗅᗺᗷᗅ

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Posted 23 July 2012 - 12:21 PM

From Reuters:

He was armed with a Smith & Wesson M&P .223 semi-automatic rifle, similar to an AR-15 assault rifle, a 12-gauge shotgun and a Glock .40-caliber handgun. Police found an additional Glock .40-caliber handgun in his car. All the weapons had been bought legally.


The right to keep and bear arms has been a subject of heated debate for decades. Unfortunately the Second Amendment is infuriatingly unclear on the matter. To wit:

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.


In modern language, with the 18th-century superfluity of commas and capital letters corrected, would read "A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed." This is the version actually ratified by the states.

Now, to me that sentence clearly indicates that the keeping and bearing of arms was sanctioned specifically for the purpose of maintaining a militia. Remember, in its early days the United States did not have a large standing army. Every able-bodied man was expected to come out and fight if the need arose. And that was no small thing -- we had, after all, just pissed off the world's most powerful empire. We were under imminent threat of invasion and didn't have an army. There were no police. Many people lived in isolated areas where wild animals and hostile natives were a real hazard. Given those conditions, it made sense for the populace to be armed.

But the Second Amendment says nothing about what types of arms may be kept and borne. There are many restrictions on what a private citizen is allowed to possess. You can't have a rocket launcher, for example. Or an Apache helicopter. No reasonable person would make the argument that such items should be available to the public. Why should handguns be any different?

In 1789, when the Bill of Rights was ratified, the only handguns were single-shot flintlock pistols. They were clumsy, inaccurate, and unreliable. They were used primarily for dueling or as a fashionable accessory for the well-heeled gentleman. While they undoubtedly fell under the heading of "arms," they would not be particularly useful in fighting off a British invasion. What the Founding Fathers had in mind, the thing they wanted people to "keep and bear," were muskets, the standard infantry weapon of the day. No one expected you to turn up for muster with a dueling pistol.

The idea that a law written over two centuries ago is still applicable today is ludicrous. The Founding Fathers could not possibly have imagined the vast array of sophisticated, deadly weapons available to a 21st century American. It would be like Congress passing a law today banning shrinking rays, just to be ready in case someone eventually invents one. The beauty of the Constitution (if indeed you believe it has any beauty) is that it's supposed to be a living document that adapts to the changing needs of the times. To all those purists who disagree I would point out that, in its original form, the Constitution legitimized slavery, regarded blacks as only 3/5 of a person (even the really tall dudes), and denied the vote to all but white, landowning males. Of the people who frequent this forum I can only think of two, Thrash and Haf, who fit that bill -- and Haf isn't even American!

Basically we've taken a law that says "Everyone should be allowed to have muskets" and use it to justify the free availability of everything from single-shot Derringers to high capacity, semi-automatic assault rifles. Somehow I don't think that's what the Founders had in mind.

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#15 Haflinger

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Posted 23 July 2012 - 01:25 PM

Oh, I thought it was an actual AR-15. Still - I'm not in favour of banning AR-15s or similar weapons, because well, they're good hunting rifles.

The Glocks you have a point about. Especially a calibre that huge; they just aren't accurate at long enough range to be useful hunting weapons and well the only thing you could use them for other than killing people would be like killing cars or something.

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#16 The Dark Empire

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Posted 23 July 2012 - 02:47 PM

Yeah I don't oppose guns but there are certain guns out there that really should be banned from public use.

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#17 Redezra

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Posted 23 July 2012 - 06:33 PM

Mmm.

I mean, if you're going to allow guns, then at least restrict them down to reasonable sporting guns/ammunition.

Defenceless herbivores and targets do not require assault rifles, magnums, and hollow point ammunition, know what I'm saying?

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Posted 23 July 2012 - 07:23 PM

If you need 80 rounds to bring down a deer, then hunting is not your sport.

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#19 The Dark Empire

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Posted 23 July 2012 - 07:45 PM

Also, its more exciting to hunt with a bow in my opinion.

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