713 replies to this topic

[Manoka]

Looking pretty bad right now.

 

https://www.google.c...ukraine&tbm=nws

[Thrash]

Yup.

 

Let's see what Kerry does about the red line he drew.

 

http://www.zerohedge...ons-declaration

[Thrash]

[ᗅᗺᗷᗅ]

Yeah, how have we not talked about this yet?

 

When push comes to shove, I don't think the West is going to risk war with Russia over Ukraine.  Prediction:  Ukraine maintains its independence, but they lose the Crimea to Russia.  That will be the price for peace.

[Princess xR1]

Obama is too much of a pussy to do anything. We saw it with Syria.

[Thrash]

Yup, this will be:

 

Putin: 2

Obama: 0

 

Even though I don't want us to get involved, we shouldn't be even fucking making public statements on it.. fuck it, fuck them.. not our responsibility.

[Manoka]

If we let Russia keep getting away with stuff they'll try more and more and it won't end here; besides, these are some major human rights violations, and with most of the world backing us up at a clear political loss it'll probably be seen as justified. 

[Thrash]

If we let Russia keep getting away with stuff they'll try more and more and it won't end here; besides, these are some major human rights violations, and with most of the world backing us up at a clear political loss it'll probably be seen as justified. 

 

"if we let".

 

we are not the fuckin world police

[ᗅᗺᗷᗅ]

It's not a question of being a "pussy."  It's a cost-benefit analysis.  What's the strategic interest here?  Solely to hem in Russia?  Is that worth the cost in blood and treasure?  We just got out of two wars that cost trillions of dollars and thousands of American lives, and those were cake walks compared to a war with Russia.  We have no bases in the region and limited ability to project military power right up to Russia's doorstep.  This would be a serious national commitment, and one I do not believe the country is willing to make.

 

The American people will not support a war with Russia over Ukraine, a country most people have never even heard of (and most of those who have probably think it's part of Russia).  It simply will not fly.

 

My guess is that this will end with some kind of negotiated settlement wherein Ukraine keeps its independence from Moscow, but Russia gets the Crimea.

[Chancellor Gunn]

[Svojtot]

Well, the way I see it, Russia has nothing to do in Ukraine. And I hope to god that Great Britain, France, Germany and the rest of the EU come to the same conclusion and together put some pressure on Russia. Unfortunately, at a time like this, however much I think that Obama has done right to the USA it would take someone like Bush to put pressure from your front on Russia.

 

What I think need to happen, from a European stand point, is that Countries close to Russia, such as Sweden, Norway, Poland, Germany, and others should heighten the alert status of the troops, forcing Russia to see that they can't do whatever the fuck they want without consequences.

[Manoka]

If we let Russia keep getting away with stuff they'll try more and more and it won't end here; besides, these are some major human rights violations, and with most of the world backing us up at a clear political loss it'll probably be seen as justified. 

 

"if we let".

 

we are not the fuckin world police

Then what are we if we don't help others in need?

 

Who deserves freedom and who doesn't; just because they're "foreigners" they shouldn't have it? And who is world police? If we let these people do whatever they want the problems will eventually come back to get us, if not just that they've built up in strength and can now rival us, and will. 

 

Japan couldn't handle it's own melt down; Haiti couldn't handle the earthquake; Europe couldn't handle WWII. Someone else, big, has to come in or things will get a lot worse. 

 

"We hold these truths, to be self evident, that all people are created equal, and are endowed with certain unalienable rights, that among them include life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness."

 

 

However, this doesn't necessarily mean war. 

 

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-03-02/kerry-says-u-s-weighing-sanctions-on-russia-over-ukraine.html]Trade sanctions! 

[Manoka]

Well, the way I see it, Russia has nothing to do in Ukraine. And I hope to god that Great Britain, France, Germany and the rest of the EU come to the same conclusion and together put some pressure on Russia. Unfortunately, at a time like this, however much I think that Obama has done right to the USA it would take someone like Bush to put pressure from your front on Russia.

 

What I think need to happen, from a European stand point, is that Countries close to Russia, such as Sweden, Norway, Poland, Germany, and others should heighten the alert status of the troops, forcing Russia to see that they can't do whatever the fuck they want without consequences.

But that would suggest that the military can resolve disputes! 

 

They're all evil brutes who are out to steal oil and eat babies, of course. 

 

 

That doesn't fit in with a perfect world. 

[the rebel]

Russia likes to "protect" its interests:

 

Syria: Mediterranean naval base

Ukraine (Crimea): Black Sea naval base

 

I don't know how Kerry and Obama can condemn anything towards what Russia is doing with a straight face, its not like the US hasn't done the exact same things in recent history to "protect" its interests.

[Svojtot]

Well, the way I see it, Russia has nothing to do in Ukraine. And I hope to god that Great Britain, France, Germany and the rest of the EU come to the same conclusion and together put some pressure on Russia. Unfortunately, at a time like this, however much I think that Obama has done right to the USA it would take someone like Bush to put pressure from your front on Russia.

 

What I think need to happen, from a European stand point, is that Countries close to Russia, such as Sweden, Norway, Poland, Germany, and others should heighten the alert status of the troops, forcing Russia to see that they can't do whatever the fuck they want without consequences.

But that would suggest that the military can resolve disputes! 

 

They're all evil brutes who are out to steal oil and eat babies, of course. 

 

 

That doesn't fit in with a perfect world. 

That's because a perfect world is an impossible dream. Sure, one we should strive for, but non the less impossible.

And to clarify, I don't want open war with Russia, I want to show them that the world is tired of their shit.

[Svojtot]

Russia likes to "protect" its interests:

 

Syria: Mediterranean naval base

Ukraine (Crimea): Black Sea naval base

 

I don't know how Kerry and Obama can condemn anything towards what Russia is doing with a straight face, its not like the US hasn't done the exact same things in recent history to "protect" its interests.

 

There is a difference between protecting your interests and invade a country because of one naval base.

[Manoka]

 

Well, the way I see it, Russia has nothing to do in Ukraine. And I hope to god that Great Britain, France, Germany and the rest of the EU come to the same conclusion and together put some pressure on Russia. Unfortunately, at a time like this, however much I think that Obama has done right to the USA it would take someone like Bush to put pressure from your front on Russia.

 

What I think need to happen, from a European stand point, is that Countries close to Russia, such as Sweden, Norway, Poland, Germany, and others should heighten the alert status of the troops, forcing Russia to see that they can't do whatever the fuck they want without consequences.

But that would suggest that the military can resolve disputes! 

 

They're all evil brutes who are out to steal oil and eat babies, of course. 

 

 

That doesn't fit in with a perfect world. 

That's because a perfect world is an impossible dream. Sure, one we should strive for, but non the less impossible.

And to clarify, I don't want open war with Russia, I want to show them that the world is tired of their shit.

Same here D:

 

Open war would be a nightmare; I think they'd back down under enough pressure, though. 

 

 

Maybe we can get them with trade sanctions and through economics and politics rather than outright violence or war. 

Edited by Manoka, 02 March 2014 - 03:16 PM.

[Manoka]

Russia likes to "protect" its interests:

 

Syria: Mediterranean naval base

Ukraine (Crimea): Black Sea naval base

 

I don't know how Kerry and Obama can condemn anything towards what Russia is doing with a straight face, its not like the US hasn't done the exact same things in recent history to "protect" its interests.

Like what, exactly?

[the rebel]

Russia likes to "protect" its interests:

 

Syria: Mediterranean naval base

Ukraine (Crimea): Black Sea naval base

 

I don't know how Kerry and Obama can condemn anything towards what Russia is doing with a straight face, its not like the US hasn't done the exact same things in recent history to "protect" its interests.

 

There is a difference between protecting your interests and invade a country because of one naval base.

 

How do you invade a place where your forces were already there decades before the coup.

 

Like what, exactly?

 

I'm not getting into one of your ignorant arguments again.

[Svojtot]

 

Russia likes to "protect" its interests:

 

Syria: Mediterranean naval base

Ukraine (Crimea): Black Sea naval base

 

I don't know how Kerry and Obama can condemn anything towards what Russia is doing with a straight face, its not like the US hasn't done the exact same things in recent history to "protect" its interests.

 

There is a difference between protecting your interests and invade a country because of one naval base.

 

How do you invade a place where your forces were already there decades before the coup.

 

 

You mean to say that Russia have had troops all over the Crimean Peninsula since the fall of the Soviet Union? I was under the impression that the Crimean Peninsula was part of Ukraine, but maybe that was just an elaborate rouse.

For example, the US have military bases all around the world, but I doubt they consider all land hundreds of kilometers around them their own.

 

And I'm sure that the troops that where surrounding a Ukrainian military base earlier today where there because it was really their military base.