86 replies to this topic

[ᗅᗺᗷᗅ]

For those of you who don't know, this is the movie (and I use that term loosely) that has supposedly caused all the recent unrest in the Middle East. It's called Innocence of Muslims, and I just finished watching it. It's pretty awful.

By "awful" I don't mean insulting to Muslims. It is that, for sure. In fact it seems to go out of its way to accuse Muslims in general and Mohammed in particular of any and every terrible thing they can think of. According to the film, Mohammed was an incestuous, homosexual madman who likes fat chicks and is henpecked. He also bears an inexplicable resemblance to Jesus. Plus a whole bunch of other stuff that was meant to rile. But that's not why I say it's awful. I mean it's one of the worst written, worst directed, worst shot, worst acted pieces of steaming excrement I have ever seen committed to celluloid. (This last is meant metaphorically, of course; the film was shot on video.) It's barely even coherent. It is of a caliber routinely surpassed by middle schoolers making a camp video (I know this for a fact -- at the camp where I worked this summer the kids made a video and it was WAY better than Innocence of Muslims). It was clearly shot on a very low budget, and seems to have been specifically meant to piss off a certain class of militant fundamentalist Muslim.

The guy who made it, who goes by the name Sam Bassil, is a convicted con man and Coptic Christian from Egypt (there's a scene in the movie of Muslim Egyptian forces oppressing Christians; at least I think that's what's going on, it's not entirely clear). For those of you who don't know, Coptic Christians are a small sect that split from mainstream Christianity long, long ago, before there was even a Roman Catholic Church as we know it. Their doctrines differ substantially from mainline Christianity in many ways, but they tend to be quite conservative, at least the devout ones. Funny how religio-fascists are always conservatives, eh? Anyway, they're no angels themselves, and there is even a Coptic underground resistance-style movement. No doubt this film was made as propaganda for that movement. That a film of this quality (or lack thereof) was deemed substantive enough to serve that purpose does not speak volumes about the intelligence of the average member of the Coptic underground. Then again, if the goal was to rile up the crazy Muslims then I guess it worked. We have a dead ambassador to prove it.

If I were arguing the stupidity of religion like a legal suit (Stafford v. Yahweh), I could rest my case now.

[PrinceVegeta]

I couldn't even watch that shit. It sucked that bad. I felt embarrassed and no ones around.

And I have seen it all on the news a lot. It's completely idiotic. This just proves that this world is long away from fucking stability. Sometimes I wish I was born during whenever the hell Biblical times was, so I could see for myself with my own eyes, what's right, and what's wrong. Sadly, I'd be dead and dust by now, and wouldn't be able to report my findings.

I mean, if two religions butt heads, it's chaos. If Atheism and religion butt heads, it's the same thing. People just need to humble themselves too each other, and just agree on one thing, regardless of anyones feelings. Then again we're Human, and it takes a lot of discipline for us to be humble.

[ᗅᗺᗷᗅ]

Atheism doesn't really take up arms and fight for atheism. You don't see a lot of atheists strapping on a bomb vest and blowing themselves up in a public market with a cry of "EVOLUTION!!!" Mostly they just shrug and go, "Whatever."

[PrinceVegeta]

Well yeah. But I'm sure they would if someone else was pointing a gun at them, and they also had a gun...unless they're pacifists...

[ᗅᗺᗷᗅ]

Well, right, but that's just survival. It doesn't have anything to do with either one's particular -ism.

[Redezra]

We cannot be tolerant of intolerance. Least of all in my country. I am greatly, greatly ashamed that the violent protests we expect in arab states occurred in Australia, a nation that prides itself on being the only truly universally tolerant purely multicultural society in the world.

Frankly these protests in western nations are an abuse of the freedom to protest, and an attack on common decency and on the foundations of our society. These protests and the people behind it should be put down and deported. They are not welcome in our countries.

[ᗅᗺᗷᗅ]

Go to Saudi Arabia if you want to meet racist Australians.

[Thrash]

We cannot be tolerant of intolerance. Least of all in my country. I am greatly, greatly ashamed that the violent protests we expect in arab states occurred in Australia, a nation that prides itself on being the only truly universally tolerant purely multicultural society in the world.

C'mon, it's well known that you dont like those Aborginese or whatever they are called.

[ᗅᗺᗷᗅ]

In Bill Bryson's book, In A Sunburned Country, he talks about Australians being the most "casually racist" group of people he had ever met. In fairness, though, I think his experiences there took place twenty years ago, so it's possible thing have changed. Certainly the United States is much farther to the left today than it was twenty years ago; it would stand to reason that Australia will be the same. I will only say, my Lady Red, that whatever the reality, the people of Oz do not have a reputation of being the most tolerant of folks.

[Redezra]

We cannot be tolerant of intolerance. Least of all in my country. I am greatly, greatly ashamed that the violent protests we expect in arab states occurred in Australia, a nation that prides itself on being the only truly universally tolerant purely multicultural society in the world.

C'mon, it's well known that you dont like those Aborginese or whatever they are called.

Can we not bring them into this? It's a totally different problem.

Well, sort of, they're abusing the shit out of the same system the muslims are abusing.

[Haflinger]

Atheism doesn't really take up arms and fight for atheism. You don't see a lot of atheists strapping on a bomb vest and blowing themselves up in a public market with a cry of "EVOLUTION!!!" Mostly they just shrug and go, "Whatever."

Well, I should take the opportunity to point out here that Marxism is atheist, and a lot of the Bolshevik movement was about promoting atheism.

I would also like to note here that no religion or other movement has a monopoly on crazy people. I mean, we know about crazy Muslims and Christians aplenty, but there are plenty of nutjobs out there. In fact it seems likely that the Unabomber is an atheist, if you read his manifesto.

We cannot be tolerant of intolerance. Least of all in my country. I am greatly, greatly ashamed that the violent protests we expect in arab states occurred in Australia, a nation that prides itself on being the only truly universally tolerant purely multicultural society in the world.

Oh dear god that's funny. You're going to claim Australia's tolerant? Are you aware of your nation's track record with its aboriginal population?

ah I see some other folks got to this first... Your government segregated native Australians until 1967 and kept them in appalling conditions. Comparing the situation to apartheid is ... well that's pretty much what it was.

I'll just leave you with this.

http://en.wikipedia....ous_Australians

[Redezra]

Don't presume to understand the deal with Australian Aboriginals, it's an extremely complex situation that would require a *lot* of explaining. Needless to say, it's not our *fault* that they're in such a bad state. I'll be coming back to this when I have time.

I know a hell of a lot fucking more about these people than you do. So don't presume to lecture me on this at all.

[Evil Rudekker]

Humans: we all pretty much suck, and we oppress pretty much everyone. I'm sure everyone has their thing (yes, even the Midwest), and we can't help anything by saying "oh, but we're not like that at all" because we all are.

[King Biscuit]

Humans: we all pretty much suck, and we oppress pretty much everyone. I'm sure everyone has their thing (yes, even the Midwest), and we can't help anything by saying "oh, but we're not like that at all" because we all are.

Here here!

[Haflinger]

Don't presume to understand the deal with Australian Aboriginals, it's an extremely complex situation that would require a *lot* of explaining. Needless to say, it's not our *fault* that they're in such a bad state. I'll be coming back to this when I have time.

Your people executed them at random for a few centuries, and continue to do so on a smaller scale with the Mulrunji and Ward incidents. It's indefensible.

Many former European colonial countries have similar histories, but the U.S. and Australians are the worst. You're the only countries to ever pay, uh, independent contractors to go out and kill your natives.

And at least the U.S. has abandoned the practice of arresting aboriginals and then beating them to death in jail cells.

[Thrash]

Yay, Redezra's been put in her place finally.

[ᗅᗺᗷᗅ]

Maybe we should ask Pauline Hanson and One Nation about how progressive and enlightened Australians are. Or the people of Cronulla. Or the Indian students attacked in 2009.

I don't mean to pick on Australia. All nations have their ugly sides, and Australia actually does pretty well in terms of being a progressive and open society. Certainly better than the United States. But no one is perfect.

[Evil Rudekker]

And at least the U.S. has abandoned the practice of arresting aboriginals and then beating them to death in jail cells.

Th U.S. has not abandoned the practice of arresting black people and incarcerating them at a rate that exceeds even Communist China.

Fixed that for you there.

[PrinceVegeta]

Humans: we all pretty much suck, and we oppress pretty much everyone. I'm sure everyone has their thing (yes, even the Midwest), and we can't help anything by saying "oh, but we're not like that at all" because we all are.

[PrinceVegeta]

Yay, Redezra's been put in her place finally.

It's not over...It's far from over.