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#81 Lord Draculea

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Posted 27 December 2015 - 11:51 AM

Don't you guys have regulations against using a cell phone without a headphone while driving?

#82 the rebel

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Posted 27 December 2015 - 11:55 AM

Don't you guys have regulations against using a cell phone without a headphone while driving?


UK does, if you're caught driving and using a mobile phone without hands free. You receive a fixed penalty notice and points on your licence.

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#83 HordeLorde

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Posted 27 December 2015 - 03:51 PM

im not saying driving while under the influence shouldnt get you a ticket or some kind of criminal offense. but (at least in the US) if you start handing out tickets and criminal offenses for driving under the influence....welll just about no one would drive. because youd have to hand them out for all kids of drugs, drugs that 7 out of ten americans are most likely on....here just afew i can think of.

pain killers
cough suppressants
anxiety meds
depression meds
seizure meds

(these meds not because they get you high, but because it changes the blood flow which can cause you to fall asleep)
some heart and cholesterol meds
some diabetes meds
some erectile dysfunction meds
allergy meds.

and thats just what i can think of for now.....

btw we should consider that most accidents caused by someone who was under the influence of mary jane, was not caused by mary jane alone. its was the combination of mary jane and distracted driving. whether it be blaring your music and not paying attention or playing on a cell phone, eating a fast food hamburger while driving or even putting on makeup.



#84 the rebel

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Posted 27 December 2015 - 07:45 PM

I'm sure in the US if you were driving on medication which may cause drowsiness or other and you was involved in an incident and your medication was the cause of the accident. I'm sure you would be charged with dangerous driving etc.

I'm not sure what you're trying to argue here? Is it because some things are legal then weed should be legal?

Let's see are you in the camp that all classified drugs should be made legal? If not why not.

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#85 HordeLorde

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Posted 27 December 2015 - 08:25 PM

when you get in an accident no one asks you if youre on zoloft, nuerontin etc.

my point is that there is no reason why weed should be illegal, not when so many other things are that get you high, cause drowsiness (among other side effects that can be far more harmful to your body than weed could ever hope to cause.) 

yes i am in that camp and here is why

http://mic.com/artic...ning#.e48NmJpCy

dont expect everyone to agree with whats said in that article(which is one of many like it) just saying that the argument is compelling enough to sell me on the idea.

Furthermore why kill two birds with one stone when you can just burn the forest down?

*pulls out flamethrower*


when the Virginia company settled Jamestown they had one goal in mind. Find Gold.
They found the Powhatan native americans instead.....not one nugget of gold....
the natives pillaged the village, killed livestock, burned crops...yadda yadda yadda
the Jamestown economy was decimated.... with that and disease and hunger running amuck.... they nearly returned to england
then,one day, john smith was walking through the woods tripped and fell in to Pocahontas's vagina. after a little hullabollou peace was made.
though peace was made the settlers still had it bad for awhile
until the natives gave the settlers tobacco
which was then planted harvested shipped and sold to england....for alot of gold....whaddya know?
So WITHOUT tobacco, a plant that when lit on fire and inhaled can cause cancer, the settlers wouldve gone back to england
virginia wouldnt have produced men like George washington, thomas jefferson and patrick henry
and america would be a very different country today

what can we take from this little history lesson you wonder? Introduce a new cash crop into a struggling, weak or decimated economy and the system will flourish.

additionally, there are many reports and numerous US politicians that have claimed that the profits of sales of illegal drugs in america are used to fund terrorist organazations....... So why not make the drugs legal and grow them in house and cut the terrorist organization's buisnesses?

Portugal+Medical uses+cutting terrorist funds+less people in prison/more working in the economy+a new market americans and the government can profit from+ the fact that we currently have hippocritical practices and standards regarding other drugs many of which are arguably worse than marijuana= NO REASON WHY CANNABIS SHOULD BE ILLEGAL


 


Edited by HordeLorde, 27 December 2015 - 08:27 PM.


#86 the rebel

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Posted 28 December 2015 - 06:56 AM

when you get in an accident no one asks you if youre on zoloft, nuerontin etc.

yes i am in that camp and here is why

http://mic.com/artic...ning#.e48NmJpCy

dont expect everyone to agree with whats said in that article(which is one of many like it) just saying that the argument is compelling enough to sell me on the idea.


No they may not ask what medication you're on at the time, but if you look unfit to drive then they would dig further.

Cool just wanted to see if you was just a hypocrite weed person or not.

I've read that report before now, but it is a different spin instead of criminalising it they choose to treat it instead, which I slightly different than completely legal.

The US doesn't have the resources to treat drug users or the will as that would require socialism... I mean communism.

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#87 HordeLorde

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Posted 28 December 2015 - 08:51 PM

the us does have the resources....it just decides to use it to put people in prison and then when they get out they can hardly do anything(get a job, vote etc) so then those people usually go back to prison. i dont understand it... id rather pay to rehabilitate someone than keep them in prison. after rehab they could at least make an attempt to contribute to society. a # strike policy would be fine for people who decide not to make their life better after rehab.

and were already closet socialists


Edited by HordeLorde, 28 December 2015 - 10:47 PM.


#88 Manoka

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Posted 29 December 2015 - 02:06 AM

My problem is more so that anyone who sells other highly addictive poison is probably complicit in to any health problems they have. I don't believe we should be permissive, just let a person go kill themselves on crack, meth, marijuana etc. or any of the other health problems. Not to mention that because car accident and violent crime figures are higher, they hurt more than themselves. 

 

While I believe the emphasis should shift to rehabilitation, rather than punishment for small time offenders, traffickers, dealers etc. imo should still get the same punishment. We don't want to proliferate drugs across society.



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#89 HordeLorde

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Posted 29 December 2015 - 09:22 PM

first of all, fuck the car accidents all kinds of things can cause a car accident.... from mechanical things to the condition and behaviour of the driver to a faulty traffic light or a stop sign being blocked from view by a bush. this "oh marijuana should be illegal because it caauses accidents" argument is a half ass bull shit argument. Its not the only thing that causes accidents and we all know it. not to mention things can be put into place regarding driving under the influence. not strong enough to keep weed illegal.

secondly we already proliferate drugs across society. you cant go a commercial break without an ad for a new drug for this that or the other. and every single time you get a list of side effects alot of times those side effects are worse than the problems they claim to solve. 

thirdly im going to scrooge this up a bit. If theyre gonna kill themselves then they better do it and decrease the surplus population. people are going to do what they wanna do regardless if its legal or not....especially in america. Prohibition of alcohol proved that. in america weve been in the war on drugs since 1971 and all weve done is flushed a shit ton of government money down the toilet paying for it(along with alot of drugs...which then gets into our water supply) yes there is cocaine in your drinking water and heroin and E and the list goes on. people die. if you dont wanna do the drugs then fine dont do them its your right to choose that. but you shouldnt rob other people of that choice. let them learn on their own. and if they die so be it. at least they died doing something they enjoyed. oh and you cant kill yourself with marijuana. it just cant be accomplished. thinking otherwise just shows how naive you are.

Lastly when portugal legalized all drugs violent crime went down. so calculate that into the formula.



#90 Manoka

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Posted 30 December 2015 - 03:20 AM

The problem is not whether or not something can cause a car accident, it is it's likelihood. First, it is illegal to use your cellphone and drive in most places. To be on certain prescription drugs and be driving. So, all of that is also still illegal. 

 

If you want to look at the statistics, about 12% of driver deaths are linked to marijuana usage. [1[2] Where as almost everyone has and uses cellphones constantly, only about 10% of fatal car accidents (or 25% for teenagers) [3] were caused by cellphones (this in the context of, 3,000 out of 30,000 fatal car accidents annually). Only about .5% of the population are Chronic users of Marijuana (not have tried it), so that's like, 24 times more likely. If we want to look at the figure of people who admit to driving while using their cellphones frequently, it's 25%, and 25% of car accidents are from cellphones, but only 10% of lethal accidents, meaning it's not really that big of a risk. If you look at the figure of people who are high on marijuana while driving, about 3.5 to 4% of drivers annually, then you're 3 times more likely to get in to a car accident and kill someone. It's a figure of about 3,600+ a year, deaths. Even if only two thirds are those are caused directly by marijuana (say, the guy would have gotten in to a crash anyways, because he's an idiot), that's still like, 2,400 deaths a year. Let's even say half, that's 1,800. And that's just from car accidents. In the context of say, 8,000 gun murders annually. Only about 8% of the population are alcoholics, but they make up about 33% of car accidents. 10.9% drove drunk at least once in the year. 

 

Heroin, meth, etc. are all significantly higher than that. In fact, there are about 8,000 heroin overdoses annually. 5,000 from cocaine. [4] That's a gigantic problem. 

 

 

 

As for violent crime, 46.7% of violent criminals are considered drug dependent, and 27.7% tested positive for drugs at the time of the arrest. [5] So, half of all violent criminals and murderers, basically. That is, illegal drugs. 37% with alcohol. There's some overlap obviously with illegal drugs and alcohol in their system, but the point is still that drugs make people more violent. 

 

As for Portugal, actually, their violent crime is up. [6][7][8] In most other countries during the same time period (1999 to 2015), crime has gone down. That being said, the spike in violence can't entirely be conflated with an increase in drug use, but they are closely related. 

 

 

Drugs, objectively, are bad for you. They're bad for the people around you. But I don't think punishment is the key. While I don't believe in being permissive, we shouldn't be punitive ,either. We should treat addiction like a mental health issue, since it more or less is. Whatever you believe, it's obvious that the endless cycle of imprisonment for addicts doesn't stop their behavior. Prison just makes them more adamant on getting their fix as soon as they get out, and the cycle of imprisonment starts all over again. We need to focus on rehabilitation, even mandatory if necessary. But to deny the harm of drugs is a danger to us all, and not fair to the addicts who can't control themselves.


Edited by Manoka, 30 December 2015 - 03:23 AM.


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#91 the rebel

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Posted 30 December 2015 - 07:44 AM

@hordelorde: if people are going to do it anyway then it doesn't really matter if its legal or not then does it. So what's the problem you don't have freedom to smoke it anywhere you want? Boo Hoo

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#92 ᗅᗺᗷᗅ

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Posted 30 December 2015 - 05:47 PM

Lol. Bottom line: the only reason marijuana was ever illegal in the first place was because black people and Mexicans liked it. That was enough to damn it in the eyes of early-20th century America, which was going through an especially intolerant and self-righteous phase. Hell, they made prohibition of alcohol a constitutional amendment. Our forebears were some serious tightasses.



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#93 Manoka

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Posted 30 December 2015 - 05:55 PM

Lol. Bottom line: the only reason marijuana was ever illegal in the first place was because black people and Mexicans liked it. That was enough to damn it in the eyes of early-20th century America, which was going through an especially intolerant and self-righteous phase. Hell, they made prohibition of alcohol a constitutional amendment. Our forebears were some serious tightasses.

I don't really think that's why. I think it was more along the lines of, they were afraid of things like say, reefer madness. People going crazy.

The word "hashish" gets it's name from the Arabic word for assassin, or "hashashin", because they would smoke a bunch of marijuana and then be calm enough to go out and kill lots of people. Pain wouldn't bother them, etc.

 

 

Now while most people won't turn in to crazy violent people, it does remove people's rationality, and thus makes them more prone to violence, if they're violent persons. 


Edited by Manoka, 30 December 2015 - 05:56 PM.


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Posted 30 December 2015 - 10:34 PM

Reefer Madness and all that stuff were propaganda pieces produced to further a right-wing political agenda. They worked. Now they're just kitsch.



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#95 HordeLorde

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Posted 30 December 2015 - 11:06 PM

@hordelorde: if people are going to do it anyway then it doesn't really matter if its legal or not then does it. So what's the problem you don't have freedom to smoke it anywhere you want? Boo Hoo

it matters because then they wont be arrested jailed and waste taxpayer money keeping them there :P



#96 HordeLorde

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Posted 30 December 2015 - 11:15 PM

Lol. Bottom line: the only reason marijuana was ever illegal in the first place was because black people and Mexicans liked it. That was enough to damn it in the eyes of early-20th century America, which was going through an especially intolerant and self-righteous phase. Hell, they made prohibition of alcohol a constitutional amendment. Our forebears were some serious tightasses.

I don't really think that's why. I think it was more along the lines of, they were afraid of things like say, reefer madness. People going crazy.

The word "hashish" gets it's name from the Arabic word for assassin, or "hashashin", because they would smoke a bunch of marijuana and then be calm enough to go out and kill lots of people. Pain wouldn't bother them, etc.

 

 

Now while most people won't turn in to crazy violent people, it does remove people's rationality, and thus makes them more prone to violence, if they're violent persons. 

anyone who has ever smoked marijuana and stubbed their toe or had any kind of minor injury knows it still hurts.



#97 the rebel

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Posted 31 December 2015 - 03:50 AM



@hordelorde: if people are going to do it anyway then it doesn't really matter if its legal or not then does it. So what's the problem you don't have freedom to smoke it anywhere you want? Boo Hoo

it matters because then they wont be arrested jailed and waste taxpayer money keeping them there :P
Perhaps you should stop smoking it, if you think the police will raid your house on suspicions of smoking it.

They call that paranoia a mental condition brought on by smoking weed. :P

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#98 Manoka

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Posted 31 December 2015 - 05:30 AM

Reefer Madness and all that stuff were propaganda pieces produced to further a right-wing political agenda. They worked. Now they're just kitsch.

What, you think they made up the whole, it makes people crazy thing because they just don't like mexicans? Wat?

 

Hispanics don't want it to be legal more than whites, according to the pew research center. The margin of left to right is pretty close, about 10-15%.



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#99 HordeLorde

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Posted 31 December 2015 - 06:29 PM

 



@hordelorde: if people are going to do it anyway then it doesn't really matter if its legal or not then does it. So what's the problem you don't have freedom to smoke it anywhere you want? Boo Hoo

it matters because then they wont be arrested jailed and waste taxpayer money keeping them there :P
Perhaps you should stop smoking it, if you think the police will raid your house on suspicions of smoking it.

They call that paranoia a mental condition brought on by smoking weed. :P

well i live in california and have a medical card, given to me because i have epilepsy. so i personally dont have to worry about it
but no one else should have to worry about it either. banning marijuana because a group of people dont like it is like banning honey because people have been stung by bees before.



#100 the rebel

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Posted 31 December 2015 - 07:25 PM

Again if you're smoking it in your own home and not dealing it, you have nothing to fear as the SWAT team isn't going to kick down your door and haul your arse to jail for smoking a joint.

Where's the issue? Unless you're against the silly little cunts getting arrested for it, since the sensible ones don't get caught.

---------

Again its seems to be about the freedom to do it where you damn please, sorry somethings you can't do where you damn please regardless of legality.

To be honest as it is now in the UK when I'm driving and in front is a car at some distance, I can soon smell if they're smoking it as the stuff stinks and it lingers. Don't need more idiots doing that behind the wheel thank you as that is what legality will cause.

In my younger days, I took many different types of drugs and never once did I get arrested for drug offences, because I was sensible and not a silly little cunt.

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