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US Election 2016: The Contenders


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#1 ᗅᗺᗷᗅ

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Posted 19 April 2015 - 11:18 AM

Republicans

  • Rand Paul. Announced.
  • Ted Cruz. Announced.
  • Marco Rubio. Announced.
  • Mike Huckabee. Set to make a "big announcement" on May 5.
  • Jeb Bush. As yet unannounced but behaving as if he were running, and generally believed to be doing so. The Establishment candidate by default.
  • Scott Walker. Also unannounced and also widely believed to be running.
  • Chris Christie. Once the media favorite, openly courting a run but wounded by scandal at home.

There are a few others. Rudolph Giuliani has been raising a lot of money, but it's hard to imagine him catching fire with Republican primary voters, especially given his poor performance last time around. Bobby Jindal is still sniffing around, but with all the big names above sucking the oxygen — and money — out of the room, it's hard to see how a guy like Jindal could find a way in.

 

On one of the Sunday talk shows this morning (I don't remember which one; I watch them all) David Brooks said that in his opinion the most plausible Republican candidates are Jeb Bush, Marco Rubio, and Scott Walker, an assessment with which I find myself in agreement. Of those three Bush is the most likely simply by virtue of having the backing of the traditional Republican Establishment (aka Wall Street); like Mitt Romney, he might be able to simply sit back and watch his opponents tear themselves apart. But I wouldn't bet on it. I think Rubio especially will put in a strong performance, and Bush will have to fight for it. He may ultimately claim the nomination, but he will be wounded, and probably forced to tack much farther to the right than he would like.

 

If Bush gets the nomination, look for him to make a "historic" pick for VP, i.e. a minority. Rubio would be attractive, but they are both from the same state, and federal law forbids the president and vice president from sharing a home state.

 

If I had to lay odds right now I'd say Bush has about a 50% chance of being the Republican nominee, Rubio a 30-35% chance, and Walker a 15-20% chance. But it's very early in the game, too early for such predictions to have much meaning.

 


Democrats

  • Hillary Clinton. Duh. Announced.
  • Martin O'Malley. Popular progressive governor of Maryland. Widely believed to be running.
  • Bernie Sanders. Not officially announced but widely acknowledged to be running.
  • Jim Webb. Publicly flirting with a campaign.

...Aaaaand that's it, at least for now. Those are all the "serious" candidates for the Democratic party's nomination for President of the United States. The Anointed One, the Outsider, the Crazy Old Man, and the Mean Dad. Pretty sad.

 

Martin O'Malley is interesting because he has legitimate blue collar and progressive street cred. he's much farther to the left than Hillary Clinton, and truth to tell I like his politics a lot better. If/when he makes it official, I will support him. I might even contribute to his campaign or participate in some way. But I will do so secure in the knowledge that he is the longest of long shots. Realistically, the Hilldog has this locked up.

 

That said, I am intrigued and delighted by Bernie Sanders' quixotic candidacy. Sanders, for those of you who don;'t know, is the iconoclastic senator from Vermont who famously describes himself as a "socialist." He caucuses with the Democrats, but spends most of his time railing against the growing corporate oligarchy that dominates American politics on both sides of the aisle. Having Bernie on the debate stage, especially if Martin O'Malley is also there, will force Hillary to talk about stuff she doesn't want to talk about, like her — and her husband's — connections to Big Money interests and the fact that, in terms of her voting record in the Senate, Hillary Clinton is closer to John McCain than Bernie Sanders on many issues.

 

A theme is shaping up here. Hillary is the frontrunner, a position she is likely to maintain right up until the nomination. O'Malley is her most serious alternative and toughest potential opponent. He could present a challenge simply by virtue of being "not Hillary," and I would expect to see him win a few primaries. But I don't expect a repeat of 2008. For one thing, O'Malley's candidacy doesn't carry with it the historical implications of Obama's in '08. No one will care that, if elected, he would be the first American president whose surname begins with the traditional Irish O'. Bottom line: This guy has "vice president" written all over him. (EDIT: Although wouldn't it be funny if O'Malley took it away from her? Beaten by another guy whose name starts with O! Heh.)

 

If he runs, Jim Webb would be the "national security" candidate on the Democratic side. That's a tough role to play. Democrats aren't as infatuated with their military types as Republicans are. And the general mood of the country — expect marijuana legalization to be on the ballot in several states — feels like it's moving away from a guy like Webb, who always manages to come off as the mean dad telling the kids at the sleepover to quiet down. Besides, it's not like Hillary Clinton lacks for national security credentials. Webb is an intelligent, thoughtful, and experienced public servant, and would undoubtedly make a competent, if uninspiring, president. But he lacks charisma, and his strongest qualifications are of minimal political benefit in a Democratic primary. Bottom line: This guy has "secretary of defense" written all over him.

 


As of this writing Election Day 2016 is one year, six months, and twenty days away (569 days). I realize that to our non-American regulars this seems like an absurdly long time for an election, and they're quite right. It is an absurdly long time for an election. One could argue that a rigorous process is warranted given the power and influence of the office being sought, and I could accept that if the process produced the best possible candidates. But does anyone seriously think that our process produces the best possible candidates?

 

This election is strange because, for the first time in over half a century, a non-incumbent candidate appears to have the nomination all but locked up on the Democratic side, while the Republicans are in disarray. Usually (certainly for all of my life) it has been the other way around. Indeed, it was once accepted as axiomatic that the Republican party nominated the "next guy in line," while the Democrats' nomination process was a free-for-all in which, more often than not, the favorite going in did not emerge as the eventual nominee.

 

Something else that has changed is the electoral math. Once upon a time — and for a long time — this favored Republicans for the White House. Consider: From 1968-2004 only two Democrats won the White House, Jimmy Carter and Bill Clinton. Carter beat Ford in '76 by the slimmest of margins, this despite Watergate, the Nixon pardon, and Ford's abysmal debate performance; he was later defeated for re-election. And Bill Clinton, despite being elected twice, never won a popular vote majority. On the other hand, Republican presidents had won by wide margins, even outright landslides, as when Ronald Reagan won 49 states in 1984. All else being equal, it seemed like Americans preferred Republican presidents. The GOP had become the "Establishment" party.

This Republican "lock" on the White House was counterbalanced by the Democrats' decades-long domination of the House of Representatives (our version of the Commons for our Commonwealth friends). This changed with Newt Gingrich's '94 Republican revolution, and control has been mostly in their hands ever since (with a brief Democratic interregnum from 2007-2011). As a result of redistricting, this Republican dominance of the House is set to remain a political fact of life at least until the next round of redistricting, which won't come until the next census in 2020. It might not be a permanent majority, but in political terms it is a generational majority, and it has shaped the political world we live in today.

 

On the other hand, Democrats now have the advantage in winning the White House. It's simple, really. If you add up the electoral votes in all the "blue" states (i.e. the ones likely to vote Democratic) and compare them to the number of electoral votes in all the "red" states (the ones that will vote Republican), the numbers favor the Democrats. This is because so many of the electorally biggest states, like California, New York, and New Jersey, are solidly blue. American elections are decided in a handful of so-called "swing" states, most importantly Pennsylvania, Ohio, and Florida. Since 1964 no candidate has been elected without winning at least two of those three states. As bellweathers go, they're as good as any. Watch those states.





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#2 Thrash

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Posted 19 April 2015 - 11:24 AM

I cant believe you don't think Paul can debate those guys. Anyhow, out of the 3 out listed, I'd have to take Walker.

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#3 ᗅᗺᗷᗅ

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Posted 19 April 2015 - 11:42 AM

Where did I say anything about Paul's debate skills? I said one thing about him, and that was "Announced." Rand Paul is a decent debater, and with the Koch brothers' backing he is automatically a major candidate. But I don't think he'll get the nomination. He's a fringe candidate, and he's got a lot of weaknesses, not least of which a long list of clips of him saying a lot of pretty ugly things. His appeal is limited to a dedicated but quirky subset of Republican primary voters, sort of like his father. He'll have more money and, as a senator, more credibility (the United States hasn't elected a president straight out of the House of Representatives since James K. Polk in 1844 — and he at least was Speaker!), but I don't think he'll be able to generate enough support to propel himself into the top tier. Because his supporters are loyal he might be able to stay in the race a long time, maybe all the way to the convention, but it's hard to see how Rand Paul wins enough delegates to get the nomination. The other guys are either too good, too well-funded, or both.

Walker is a bit of a dark horse, but not an unrealistic one. The mere fact of his being elected governor of a state like Wisconsin, the demographics of which are very similar to those of Ohio and Pennsylvania, suggests an advantage in those places, and as we have seen those places are what it's all about. That said, I think as a nominee Walker would be a disaster. He is far too right wing, far too out of touch with the mainstream of American societal attitudes. I think a Walker nomination would be another Johnson-Goldwater election — a Democratic blowout.

Of the three — Bush, Rubio, and Walker — I think Rubio has the best shot of beating Hillary Clinton. That said, I still think he would probably lose. Again, giving odds at this stage is an exercise in futility, but if I were to handicap a Clinton-Rubio election I'd give Hillary Clinton a 75% chance of winning. (This is not to say that I think she would get 75% of the vote; not at all. This means that, given the various electoral models that seem most likely, 75% of them result in Hillary Clinton winning.)



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#4 slimshadyinc

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Posted 19 April 2015 - 05:30 PM

Please no not another bush ever again that would honestly kill me.

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#5 KiWi

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Posted 19 April 2015 - 10:14 PM

Pretty much. Nice posts Jorost.

I already feel more informed (I'm being serious. It's a good overview, and completely jives with my knowledge on things, and the logic I use in understanding how these things play out).

I didn't know about Koch behind Rand, but I know about both, so I know what to expect out of that, and your post was exactly that.

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#6 Justavictim82

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Posted 20 April 2015 - 01:47 AM

Where did I say anything about Paul's debate skills? I said one thing about him, and that was "Announced." Rand Paul is a decent debater, and with the Koch brothers' backing he is automatically a major candidate. But I don't think he'll get the nomination. He's a fringe candidate, and he's got a lot of weaknesses, not least of which a long list of clips of him saying a lot of pretty ugly things. His appeal is limited to a dedicated but quirky subset of Republican primary voters, sort of like his father. He'll have more money and, as a senator, more credibility (the United States hasn't elected a president straight out of the House of Representatives since James K. Polk in 1844 — and he at least was Speaker!), but I don't think he'll be able to generate enough support to propel himself into the top tier. Because his supporters are loyal he might be able to stay in the race a long time, maybe all the way to the convention, but it's hard to see how Rand Paul wins enough delegates to get the nomination. The other guys are either too good, too well-funded, or both.

Walker is a bit of a dark horse, but not an unrealistic one. The mere fact of his being elected governor of a state like Wisconsin, the demographics of which are very similar to those of Ohio and Pennsylvania, suggests an advantage in those places, and as we have seen those places are what it's all about. That said, I think as a nominee Walker would be a disaster. He is far too right wing, far too out of touch with the mainstream of American societal attitudes. I think a Walker nomination would be another Johnson-Goldwater election — a Democratic blowout.

Of the three — Bush, Rubio, and Walker — I think Rubio has the best shot of beating Hillary Clinton. That said, I still think he would probably lose. Again, giving odds at this stage is an exercise in futility, but if I were to handicap a Clinton-Rubio election I'd give Hillary Clinton a 75% chance of winning. (This is not to say that I think she would get 75% of the vote; not at all. This means that, given the various electoral models that seem most likely, 75% of them result in Hillary Clinton winning.)

 

Ironically John Kasich, governor of my state of Ohio, is also rumored to possibly throw his name in. 

http://www.msnbc.com...-about-2016-bid

 

If he does enter, it would be really bad news for Walker. He and Walker have very similar platforms and agendas.



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#7 King Biscuit

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Posted 20 April 2015 - 04:37 AM

As I've stated before, Hillary WILL be POTUS, and there is nothing we can do about it.

 

Moving to Denmark.



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#8 Redezra

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Posted 20 April 2015 - 06:18 AM

Why move to Denmark? Why not stay and see what happens :D



#9 King Biscuit

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Posted 20 April 2015 - 10:14 AM

Why move to Denmark?

 

Because Freedom.



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#10 Manoka

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Posted 20 April 2015 - 12:57 PM

I don't really like any of the candidates. None of them pop. 

 

Maybe I should run for president?

 

That would be pretty boss. 

 

 

 

Out of all of them though, Jeb Bush or Hillary Clinton are my favorites. As long as Hillary isn't for banning guns, I'd vote for her. As secretary of defense, it's possible she's realized how weapons actually works now and won't try to ban the one's civilians are allowed to own. 



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#11 HailSatan

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Posted 20 April 2015 - 05:20 PM

I don't really like any of the candidates. None of them pop. 

 

Maybe I should run for president?

 

That would be pretty boss. 

 

 

 

Out of all of them though, Jeb Bush or Hillary Clinton are my favorites. As long as Hillary isn't for banning guns, I'd vote for her. As secretary of defense, it's possible she's realized how weapons actually works now and won't try to ban the one's civilians are allowed to own. 

of course she will ban guns, its the Demi way.  If not the normal way , there is always the pen and phone.  Of course she will never say that on the campaign, that would be suicide.

 

What i cant wait for is debates  on either side.  Will be nice to see what they actually say , although its all a lie or at least they only tell you what you want to.  But, its unscripted and have to shoot from the hip. thats when you really find out who they are.  



#12 *Anastasia

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Posted 20 April 2015 - 05:34 PM

You're forgetting someone important, Jorost.



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#13 Redezra

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Posted 20 April 2015 - 06:42 PM

Oh yeah~ that's right :D



#14 Redezra

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Posted 20 April 2015 - 06:42 PM

I don't really like any of the candidates. None of them pop. 

 

Maybe I should run for president?

 

That would be pretty boss. 

 

 

 

Out of all of them though, Jeb Bush or Hillary Clinton are my favorites. As long as Hillary isn't for banning guns, I'd vote for her. As secretary of defense, it's possible she's realized how weapons actually works now and won't try to ban the one's civilians are allowed to own. 

of course she will ban guns, its the Demi way.  If not the normal way , there is always the pen and phone.  Of course she will never say that on the campaign, that would be suicide.

 

What i cant wait for is debates  on either side.  Will be nice to see what they actually say , although its all a lie or at least they only tell you what you want to.  But, its unscripted and have to shoot from the hip. thats when you really find out who they are.  

 

Well, not unless they've paid off the people doing the debates...



#15 King Biscuit

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Posted 20 April 2015 - 06:54 PM

Banning guns is political suicide.

Hillary may be evil, but she isn't stupid.

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#16 Justavictim82

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Posted 20 April 2015 - 10:04 PM

I don't understand what the Right's delusional paranoia about Obama and now Hilary about guns. Where does this come from? What piece of legislation backs this for her? She may want to set a limit on clip size like Obama but in no way is she or any Democrat coming for your weapon. Hell a majority of the Democratic party are either NRA members themselves or Pro-gun. Hilary has a lot of faults So concentrate on those before making up outright lies.

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#17 Manoka

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Posted 21 April 2015 - 03:57 AM

I don't understand what the Right's delusional paranoia about Obama and now Hilary about guns. Where does this come from? What piece of legislation backs this for her? She may want to set a limit on clip size like Obama but in no way is she or any Democrat coming for your weapon. Hell a majority of the Democratic party are either NRA members themselves or Pro-gun. Hilary has a lot of faults So concentrate on those before making up outright lies.

Maybe it's the fact that Obama said he wasn't interested in banning guns, and then in his second term, when he wasn't up for reelection, tried to institute an assault weapons ban. [1][2][3] And when it didn't pass in Congress, he and Biden seriously considered making it an executive order. [1][2][3] It's not paranoia when they're actually trying to ban your guns. 

 

Maybe, Hillary's husband actually did push an assault weapon's ban, and is the only president in history to sign one into law. Maybe, she actually said she supports it. [1][2][3] But, that's probably just me grasping at straws. 

 

 

And, if they had signed in to law the ORIGINAL assault weapon's ban bill they had planned when Obama gave his support to it, it would have literally retroactively made it illegal to own these weapons. An amendment to the bill made it so the old weapons would be grandfathered in, but the original assault weapon ban that Obama supported would have made it so it would have been illegal to own these guns before the law was passed, which was just insane. Even though that part of the bill has been removed by Fiensteine [1], banning future production still means we will never be able to have them again, and once our's wear out, it'll be over.

 

Like, what I don't get is why people call people worried about their gun rights paranoid. Like, you ARE trying to take away my gun rights, aren't you? Jorost, Red, I mean right? And it did almost get passed in congress, right? And the fact that there was such a fierce response is what tipped the tables to not having our rights get banned, right? I mean, 40-60 is pretty close. [1] And if we just sat back and did nothing, and put forwards no opposition to the law, it would actually get passed, right? Seriously, who the hell says "Why are you opposed to it, it will never happen..." when the only reason it never happens is that we are opposed to it! If we didn't oppose it, it would happen since there are so many people trying to push it through, so, yeah it's a big deal for us. Not to mention, the actual details of the assault weapon's ban are absolutely ludicrous, the fact anyone would support it at all boggles the mind. Banning adjustable stocks, forward grips, barrel shrouds? I don't even...



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#18 Manoka

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Posted 21 April 2015 - 04:02 AM


I don't really like any of the candidates. None of them pop. 

 

Maybe I should run for president?

 

That would be pretty boss. 

 

 

 

Out of all of them though, Jeb Bush or Hillary Clinton are my favorites. As long as Hillary isn't for banning guns, I'd vote for her. As secretary of defense, it's possible she's realized how weapons actually works now and won't try to ban the one's civilians are allowed to own. 

of course she will ban guns, its the Demi way.  If not the normal way , there is always the pen and phone.  Of course she will never say that on the campaign, that would be suicide.

 

What i cant wait for is debates  on either side.  Will be nice to see what they actually say , although its all a lie or at least they only tell you what you want to.  But, its unscripted and have to shoot from the hip. thats when you really find out who they are.  

The sad thing is, I really, highly doubt that the debates will yield much, since few of these candidates seem to really know what they are talking about. Few people voting for them know. 

 

Obama said he's going to remove mandates! Now, he has a mandate, since it's fundamental to the healthcare law he copied from the heritage foundation, but it's in the form of a tax, which makes it an incentive, but not actually a mandate, which was crucial to the idea of the healthcare law in the first place. But, Obama is out to save baby puppies, and Mitt Romney, who's actually instituted a successful version of thing Obama copied from him, is just a racist old man who wants to strangle those same puppies with his bare hands! 

 

 

While I don't like Mitt Romney, he at least followed what his think tank said to do, while Obama wrote his name on it and changed parts of it, which ironically ended up being the most important part of the entire bill. No really, can any of you tell me what the point of Obamacare is, how it's intended to save us money and increase coverage, cause I'd love to know what you think... 



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#19 Manoka

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Posted 21 April 2015 - 04:56 AM

What I don't get it is, why do people always bring up the fact that I'm paranoid in these conversations?

 

Like seriously, I know that already, what does that at all have to do with the topic at hand?

 

 

Low blow gaisz, seriously. 



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#20 King Biscuit

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Posted 21 April 2015 - 07:45 AM


I don't understand what the Right's delusional paranoia about Obama and now Hilary about guns. Where does this come from? What piece of legislation backs this for her? She may want to set a limit on clip size like Obama but in no way is she or any Democrat coming for your weapon. Hell a majority of the Democratic party are either NRA members themselves or Pro-gun. Hilary has a lot of faults So concentrate on those before making up outright lies.


QFT

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