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The Next 100 Years :: CALLING OUT JOROST


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#1 KiWi

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Posted 17 December 2016 - 01:38 PM

Book discussion.

This is the book you always recommend right? Thinking about reading it. Anyone else other than our Glorious Protector a fan of Mr. Friedman's work?



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#2 Justavictim82

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Posted 17 December 2016 - 08:06 PM

I read the book. It was fascinating. Would recommend. Makes very good logical sense.

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#3 KiWi

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Posted 17 December 2016 - 09:16 PM

Well I now own it. So I hope it's good.

You read anything else by him? Such as 'The Next Decade'?

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#4 Lord Draculea

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Posted 18 December 2016 - 05:16 AM

"   Imagine that you were alive in the summer of 1900, living in London, then the capital of the world. Europe ruled the Eastern Hemisphere. There was hardly a place that, if not ruled directly, was not indirectly controlled from a European capital. Europe was at peace and enjoying un­precedented prosperity. Indeed, European interdependence due to trade and investment was so great that serious people were claiming that war had become impossible—and if not impossible, would end within weeks of be­ginning—because global financial markets couldn’t withstand the strain. The future seemed fixed: a peaceful, prosperous Europe would rule the world.

    Imagine yourself now in the summer of 1920. Europe had been torn apart by an agonizing war. The continent was in tatters. The Austro-Hungarian, Russian, German, and Ottoman empires were gone and millions had died in a war that lasted for years. The war ended when an American army of a million men intervened - an army that came and then just as quickly left. Communism dominated Russia, but it was not clear that it could survive. Countries that had been on the periphery of European power, like the United States and Japan, suddenly emerged as great powers. But one thing was certain - the peace treaty that had been imposed on Germany guaran­teed that it would not soon reemerge.
    Imagine the summer of 1940. Germany had not only reemerged but conquered France and dominated Europe. Communism had survived and the Soviet Union now was allied with Nazi Germany. Great Britain alone stood against Germany, and from the point of view of most reasonable peo­ple, the war was over. If there was not to be a thousand-year Reich, then cer­tainly Europe’s fate had been decided for a century. Germany would dominate Europe and inherit its empire.

    Imagine now the summer of 1960. Germany had been crushed in the war, defeated less than five years later. Europe was occupied, split down the middle by the United States and the Soviet Union. The European empires were collapsing, and the United States and Soviet Union were competing over who would be their heir. The United States had the Soviet Union surrounded and, with an overwhelming arsenal of nuclear weapons, could annihilate it in hours. The United States had emerged as the global super­power. It dominated all of the world’s oceans, and with its nuclear force could dictate terms to anyone in the world. Stalemate was the best the Sovi­ets could hope for - unless the Soviets invaded Germany and conquered Europe. That was the war everyone was preparing for. And in the back of everyone’s mind, the Maoist Chinese, seen as fanatical, were the other danger.

    Now imagine the summer of 1980. The United States had been defeated in a seven-year war - not by the Soviet Union, but by communist North Vietnam. The nation was seen, and saw itself, as being in retreat. Expelled from Vietnam, it was then expelled from Iran as well, where the oil fields, which it no longer controlled, seemed about to fall into the hands of the So­viet Union. To contain the Soviet Union, the United States had formed an alliance with Maoist China - the American president and the Chinese chairman holding an amiable meeting in Beijing. Only this alliance seemed able to contain the powerful Soviet Union, which appeared to be surging.
    Imagine now the summer of 2000. The Soviet Union had completely collapsed. China was still communist in name but had become capitalist in practice. NATO had advanced into Eastern Europe and even into the for­mer Soviet Union. The world was prosperous and peaceful. Everyone knew that geopolitical considerations had become secondary to economic consid­erations, and the only problems were regional ones in basket cases like Haiti or Kosovo.
    Then came September 11, 2001, and the world turned on its head again.
    At a certain level, when it comes to the future, the only thing one can be sure of is that common sense will be wrong. [...] "



#5 He who posts

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Posted 18 December 2016 - 06:42 AM

20 year jumps  :facepalm:



#6 Lord Draculea

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Posted 18 December 2016 - 08:25 AM

Yep. We could call that part of the introduction to the book ("The Next 100 Years") "The past 100 years" (viewed by 20 year jumps).

#7 King Biscuit

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Posted 18 December 2016 - 12:31 PM

The Next 100 years and The Next Decade are great.

Friedman is pretty on point.

 

Oh boy is Europe gonna be fun the next few decades.



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#8 KiWi

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Posted 18 December 2016 - 02:09 PM

Cracked open Next 100 Years today. So far it all makes sense. How he's going about predicting the future.

What's wrong with 20 year jumps Xoin?

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#9 Lord Draculea

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Posted 18 December 2016 - 06:33 PM


Oh boy is Europe gonna be fun the next few decades.

 

"In the name of all that is humane, it [the US] will make certain that Eurasia remains chaotic."

(G. Friedman - "The Next 100 years")



#10 Redezra

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Posted 19 December 2016 - 10:57 PM

I will never not disagree with Friedman. His whole idea on how the world is/will be feels like the major plot points out of Tomorrowland and it pisses me off. Even if I'm wrong, I live in hope that people can be smarter.



#11 Lord Draculea

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Posted 20 December 2016 - 04:12 PM

Friedman is not a determinist, and if you knew anything about his life story you'd know it. His conception (as well as mine) is that we (people) are free spirits, "trapped" in a universe of limitations and constraints (idk if he would actually put it in those words, but that's the spirit of it). In the field of geopolitics, you have geography, economy, cultural backgrounds etc. as factors that make up for the relative strengths and weaknesses, opportunities and threats of the nations (and other meaningful actors) involved in the global political game. That being the setup, or stage, it does not mean that the future is predetermined. The mentioned factors exercise a more or less severe (sometimes deadly) influence, and it would be foolish (or delusional) to ignore it, and that's what the science of geopolitics is about (and yes, it is a science, just about as much as economics). But in a deep sense, the very meaning of our existence, as beings "trapped" in this world, is to overcome our constraints and limitations, and that's what freedom is about, isn't it? Do you really think for a second that a guy like Friedman doesn't know all that?

Edited by Lord Draculea, 20 December 2016 - 04:16 PM.


#12 King Biscuit

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Posted 20 December 2016 - 05:50 PM

Friedman is not a determinist, and if you knew anything about his life story you'd know it. His conception (as well as mine) is that we (people) are free spirits, "trapped" in a universe of limitations and constraints (idk if he would actually put it in those words, but that's the spirit of it). In the field of geopolitics, you have geography, economy, cultural backgrounds etc. as factors that make up for the relative strengths and weaknesses, opportunities and threats of the nations (and other meaningful actors) involved in the global political game. That being the setup, or stage, it does not mean that the future is predetermined. The mentioned factors exercise a more or less severe (sometimes deadly) influence, and it would be foolish (or delusional) to ignore it, and that's what the science of geopolitics is about (and yes, it is a science, just about as much as economics). But in a deep sense, the very meaning of our existence, as beings "trapped" in this world, is to overcome our constraints and limitations, and that's what freedom is about, isn't it? Do you really think for a second that a guy like Friedman doesn't know all that?

 

He founded STRATFOR.

Of course he knows that.



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#13 Redezra

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Posted 20 December 2016 - 08:00 PM

Friedman is not a determinist, and if you knew anything about his life story you'd know it. His conception (as well as mine) is that we (people) are free spirits, "trapped" in a universe of limitations and constraints (idk if he would actually put it in those words, but that's the spirit of it). In the field of geopolitics, you have geography, economy, cultural backgrounds etc. as factors that make up for the relative strengths and weaknesses, opportunities and threats of the nations (and other meaningful actors) involved in the global political game. That being the setup, or stage, it does not mean that the future is predetermined. The mentioned factors exercise a more or less severe (sometimes deadly) influence, and it would be foolish (or delusional) to ignore it, and that's what the science of geopolitics is about (and yes, it is a science, just about as much as economics). But in a deep sense, the very meaning of our existence, as beings "trapped" in this world, is to overcome our constraints and limitations, and that's what freedom is about, isn't it? Do you really think for a second that a guy like Friedman doesn't know all that?

 

Well duh, it's just that I'd prefer to live in a world where his predictions are wrong.



#14 KiWi

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Posted 20 December 2016 - 08:07 PM


Friedman is not a determinist, and if you knew anything about his life story you'd know it. His conception (as well as mine) is that we (people) are free spirits, "trapped" in a universe of limitations and constraints (idk if he would actually put it in those words, but that's the spirit of it). In the field of geopolitics, you have geography, economy, cultural backgrounds etc. as factors that make up for the relative strengths and weaknesses, opportunities and threats of the nations (and other meaningful actors) involved in the global political game. That being the setup, or stage, it does not mean that the future is predetermined. The mentioned factors exercise a more or less severe (sometimes deadly) influence, and it would be foolish (or delusional) to ignore it, and that's what the science of geopolitics is about (and yes, it is a science, just about as much as economics). But in a deep sense, the very meaning of our existence, as beings "trapped" in this world, is to overcome our constraints and limitations, and that's what freedom is about, isn't it? Do you really think for a second that a guy like Friedman doesn't know all that?

 
Well duh, it's just that I'd prefer to live in a world where his predictions are wrong.
 



So do you fear what he says will come true, or find his predictions to be unfounded?

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#15 Redezra

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Posted 21 December 2016 - 09:24 AM

I find the foundations of what he says to be while reasonably accurate, unhopeful. I don't like an unhopeful world.



#16 the rebel

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Posted 21 December 2016 - 10:20 AM

I find the foundations of what he says to be while reasonably accurate, unhopeful. I don't like an unhopeful world.


Congratulations, you've now become a qualified adult, your certificate is in the post.

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#17 Redezra

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Posted 22 December 2016 - 11:18 AM

I find the foundations of what he says to be while reasonably accurate, unhopeful. I don't like an unhopeful world.


Congratulations, you've now become a qualified adult, your certificate is in the post.

 

Please stop trying to piss me off. You don't want to see me actually angry.



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Posted 23 December 2016 - 01:43 AM


I find the foundations of what he says to be while reasonably accurate, unhopeful. I don't like an unhopeful world.

Congratulations, you've now become a qualified adult, your certificate is in the post.

Please stop trying to piss me off. You don't want to see me actually angry.

I see angry people all the time when my toddler throws a paddy, not that it matters as seeing the world as unhopeful is just a part of growing up and realising its not easy or simple. If reality pisses you off then you haven't gotten over the truth of life yet.

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#19 Lord Draculea

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Posted 26 December 2016 - 12:25 AM

 

For anyone who hasn't got the book, here's a nice discussion that can give you a pretty good idea about it (two parts).




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