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The End of the Republican Party


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#1 ᗅᗺᗷᗅ

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 12:58 PM

I have refrained from making many political posts on these forums lately, aside from responses to existing threads.  Partly that's because I have lost interest in politics, stuck as we are now between election cycles (my interest waxes and wanes with elections), and partly it's because I don't think anyone here is really as into it as I am.  Heh.  But we've had some big doings lately.  Historical doings.

 

The government shutdown is over after 16 days.  87 Republicans joined with House Democrats to pass the Senate's stopgap bill to raise the debt ceiling and reopen the government, putting the whole thing off until next year, when we get to do it all over again.

 

87 Republicans.  This is the majority party we're talking about here.  There are 242 Republicans in the House, yet Speaker of the House John Boehner (aka Bronze Johnny, aka The Crying Game) could only corral a third of them.  He has lost control of his own party.

 

In a recent Pew poll, 51% of Republicans said they believe the Tea Party movement to be a separate from the GOP.  In that same Pew poll, 49% of Americans had an unfavorable opinion of the Tea Party; among 18-29 year olds their favorability is a mere 25%.  So the Republican party has hitched its wagon to a faction that cannot win swing voters or young voters; hardly a recipe for electoral success.  In fact the GOP majority in the House has more to do with gerrymandered districts drawn by Republicans after the 2010 census.  They have virtually no chance of losing, which is why so many of them feel safe to take extreme positions.  Their jobs are not in danger.

 

So there are 30 or so Tea Party members of the House, whose seats are more or less safe.  That's fine for them, but their extreme and very vocal positions tar the Republican party as a whole, drive away centrists, and damage their prospects to win a national election.  They "fought the good fight," they said, over the recent government shutdown.  Fought the good fight?  Yeah, they should be really proud of themselves for keeping day closed and making people work without pay.  And why?  Because they don't like Obamacare.  They cannot get over the fact that the law was passed, the Supreme Court upheld it, and the president was re-elected by a comfortable margin.  They are, in short, insane.  One moderate GOP senator recently identified himself as being from the "sane caucus" of the Republican party.

 

I think we are looking at a split in the Republican party.  2016 will be telling.  The fight for the Republican nomination will be nasty.  It is becoming easier and easier to see a realistic scenario in which we have a Democrat, a Republican, and a Tea Party candidate.  Sam Brownback?  Sarah Palin?  Ooh, it's going to be fun!  *rubs hands together in glee*

 

30% of the public have a favorable view of the Tea Party.  That's a significant minority, but it's still a minority.  In 1992 Ross Perot got almost 20% (18.9%, to be exact) of the popular vote, which some analysts say swung the election to Clinton (other models have shown otherwise).  Whether it did or did not give the Oval Office to Big Bill, the fact remains that it is the best showing for any third party candidate in a presidential election in a very long time.  If the Tea Party ran a candidate of their own it is not inconceivable that they could garner 20-25% of the popular vote.  The problem is that most of those votes will come from the Republicans' column, essentially handing the election to whichever Democrat gets the nomination.  Coughcoughhillaryclintoncoughcough.  Whether that's a good thing or a bad thing remains to be seen.

 

A lot of people, me included, have longed for a third party.  I think we're going to get our wish.





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#2 King Biscuit

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 01:12 PM

"Fighting the good fight" also includes costing us a total of $40 Billion.

How valiant of them.

 

Of all the third parties to be had, Haim help us if the Tea party gets any kind of real footing in a presidential race.

Facts are already a strange thing to be found in politics, if ever.

Could you imagine the tripe someone like Sarah Palin would sell as fact?

/me shivers



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#3 Phate

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 02:41 PM

If they're sane, they would't try and use Sarah Palin, aka the Alaskan Governor who resigned halfway through a term over ethics violations. Though, it's the Tea Party, so you can't count it out.



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#4 ᗅᗺᗷᗅ

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 02:45 PM

Well and there would be other factors to consider, as well.  If the Tea Party runs a third major candidate, there is realistically no way that person can win.  20-25% of the vote, 30% tops (and that's assuming his/her opponents were simply godawful).  So since there is no chance of winning, they are free to make it an issues campaign, and run whatever far-right whackjob they want.  Sarah Palin has no interest in actually being president; it would be far too much work for her.  But the attention of being center stage in a presidential campaign?  Especially one you have no chance of winning?  I bet she'd go for that in a big way.



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#5 Phate

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 02:59 PM

Well and there would be other factors to consider, as well.  If the Tea Party runs a third major candidate, there is realistically no way that person can win.  20-25% of the vote, 30% tops (and that's assuming his/her opponents were simply godawful).  So since there is no chance of winning, they are free to make it an issues campaign, and run whatever far-right whackjob they want.  Sarah Palin has no interest in actually being president; it would be far too much work for her.  But the attention of being center stage in a presidential campaign?  Especially one you have no chance of winning?  I bet she'd go for that in a big way.

 

Ah, right. Didn't think about that. It would certainly give them quite the exposure and platform from which to spew their message. And you're right about Palin, from what I've seen about her, I'm guessing she would love the attention.



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#6 Manoka

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 03:38 PM

I don't think it is, sadly, but the Tea party are idiots.

 

They literally are sitting on a position derived from Ayn Rand's philiosphy, which is that it's "immoral" to help others and you should be selfish and stuff. Yeah; in a group called the "collective", for no greater irony. Anyways, when faced with the question of "what if helping others makes me happy" she literally just sat there in the interview for 10 minutes with no response until another quesiton was asked.

 

 

But anyways, Romney's plan was nearly identical to Obama's and was very similiar to Bob Dole's. Obama initially had this to say on the plan ""If a mandate was the solution, then we could try that to solve homelessness by mandating that everyone buys a house. The reason they don't have the house is that they don't have the money."

 

If the Republicans had slammed Obama for this, suggesting that the plan was largely their idea (since it actually was), hitting Obama for being initially against it and trying to steal the credit when he did a 180 (which he actually did), I think it would have worked better in their favor; but of course, the Tea party aren't even second rate politicians. It's a classic move to deface your opponent and steal the credit. You could have all this same heat on him but pass popular legistlation and claim it as your own. With all the other crap people hate Obama for and the rest of the anti Obama campaign, maybe the Democrats don't win another election. Instead we're stuck between a large rock and a hard place.

 

 

Saying Obama is a cactus and wasn't born here and doesn't have a birth certificate is disgusting and insane; who even cares? Why detract from the real issues?

 

The Tea party now looks weak from this shutdown and their unwillingness to compromise, not strong. You look weak when you throw a temper tantrum that could seriously harm the U.S. populace over nothing. It's sad they're a part of the Republican party, but that's how it goes.


Edited by Manoka, 17 October 2013 - 03:45 PM.


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#7 King Biscuit

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 04:19 PM

I don't think it is, sadly, but the Tea party are idiots.

 

They literally are sitting on a position derived from Ayn Rand's philiosphy, which is that it's "immoral" to help others and you should be selfish and stuff. Yeah; in a group called the "collective", for no greater irony. Anyways, when faced with the question of "what if helping others makes me happy" she literally just sat there in the interview for 10 minutes with no response until another quesiton was asked.

 

 

But anyways, Romney's plan was nearly identical to Obama's and was very similiar to Bob Dole's. Obama initially had this to say on the plan ""If a mandate was the solution, then we could try that to solve homelessness by mandating that everyone buys a house. The reason they don't have the house is that they don't have the money."

 

If the Republicans had slammed Obama for this, suggesting that the plan was largely their idea (since it actually was), hitting Obama for being initially against it and trying to steal the credit when he did a 180 (which he actually did), I think it would have worked better in their favor; but of course, the Tea party aren't even second rate politicians. It's a classic move to deface your opponent and steal the credit. You could have all this same heat on him but pass popular legistlation and claim it as your own. With all the other crap people hate Obama for and the rest of the anti Obama campaign, maybe the Democrats don't win another election. Instead we're stuck between a large rock and a hard place.

 

 

Saying Obama is a cactus and wasn't born here and doesn't have a birth certificate is disgusting and insane; who even cares? Why detract from the real issues?

 

The Tea party now looks weak from this shutdown and their unwillingness to compromise, not strong. You look weak when you throw a temper tantrum that could seriously harm the U.S. populace over nothing. It's sad they're a part of the Republican party, but that's how it goes.

 

Spot on.

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#8 rotty

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 06:22 PM

An early congrats to the tea party for getting Hilary Clinton elected in 2016.    :P



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#9 ᗅᗺᗷᗅ

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 06:54 PM

That is a very likely scenario.  The fight for the GOP nomination is bloody, but eventually goes to the Establishment candidate, whoever that turns out to be (Jeb Bush? Rob Portman?), so the Tea Partiers bolt and nominate, say, Rand Paul.  Meanwhile, on the Democratic side, Hillary Clinton bests all comers this time around, as expected, and gets the nomination fairly easily.

 

On the other hand, if the mainstream Republicans nominated someone like Marco Rubio, well, now you might have a more interesting game, at least if he can win a significant portion of the Latino vote (and there's no guarantee he can).  My guess is that he'd be no more effective with Latinos than Herman Cain was with blacks.

 

And what about the evangelicals?  What will they do?

 

It's going to be glorious.  I think we have the best chance in fifty years of seeing a brokered convention.  Wouldn't that be something?



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#10 Manoka

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 07:49 PM

Power brokers, politicians, criminals and black ops mercenaries - with one thing in common, besides. They're humanity's last hope against your kind. (This was a conversation told to Superman. xP )


Edited by Manoka, 17 October 2013 - 07:59 PM.


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#11 GeniusInc

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 08:01 PM

On the other hand, if the mainstream Republicans nominated someone like Marco Rubio, well, now you might have a more interesting game, at least if he can win a significant portion of the Latino vote (and there's no guarantee he can).  My guess is that he'd be no more effective with Latinos than Herman Cain was with blacks.

 

Thats because Cuban != Latino



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#12 ᗅᗺᗷᗅ

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 08:14 PM

Right.  Cubans tend to vote far more conservatively than most Latinos.



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#13 Redezra

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 08:31 PM

The Republican party will return when the Democrats do something decidedly stupid. They're bound to eventually, nobody can have a clean record.

 

But that may be a long, long way away.



#14 Manoka

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 08:59 PM

Um. Yeah.

 

Anyways! I would run for president, but I don't know if I meet all the requirements.

 

 

My first order of business would be to establish subsidized 1.2% candu reactors to lower electricity costs substantially.

 

Once that was in place, carbon fiber and lithium ion batteries would drop in price, making electric cars feasible.

 

 

Once that was done, we'd conviently have cheaper computers and super cooling and magnets n stuff; which would be great for MRI scanners, lots of other medical technology, general research, and super colliders for proton accelerators to figure out quantum mechanics, or get real life wall hacks.

 

So yeah!

 

 

Also solar panels take energy to be created, as in electricity, which is why their carbon footprint is still an issue.

 

Thus we could make some and put them in Antartica and other cold places, where it's more efficient and sunny (and technically a desert in the middle), and as well where we wouldn't need as many batteries since it's light for 6 months straight, also reducing the cost. As a safety measure. They'd last longer, so as long as they were kept pristine it would lower the cost of solar. So yerp.



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#15 Thrash

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 10:20 PM

Dude, no one in the Republican party will vote for Rubio. He's pro-Amnesty.



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#16 Justavictim82

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 10:55 PM

Depends on where Obama goes with Immigration reform Thrash. If they want to win the general election, they had better be on board. GOP needs some sort of minority influx to win anything.

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#17 ᗅᗺᗷᗅ

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Posted 18 October 2013 - 07:14 AM

Dude, no one in the Republican party will vote for Rubio. He's pro-Amnesty.

 

Yeah, but look at all the people who said the Republican party would never vote for a Mormon.  Or all the people who said there would never be a president from Arkansas.  Never say never.  It's the Tea Party types who most oppose immigration reform; more moderate Republicans don't feel as strongly about it.  But you're right, this issue would be a weakness in the primaries unless Rubio can turn out Latino voters.



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#18 Thrash

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Posted 19 October 2013 - 07:35 AM

The Republican people voted for a Moron because the other choice was a Socialist. Note that I did not vote for a Mormon.



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#19 Ellis

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Posted 19 October 2013 - 02:30 PM

As a non-American, this 'Obama is a socialist' stuff is a source of amusement whenever it comes up :P



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#20 Redezra

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Posted 20 October 2013 - 01:18 AM

Yus. It's funny :3




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