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#1 ᗅᗺᗷᗅ

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Posted 02 April 2012 - 06:26 PM

Not that excited about this movie. I should be -- I've been waiting for an Avengers movie since I was nine. But after seeing the trailers, I have to say I'm not holding my breath.

First of all, the cast of characters is wrong. The original Avengers were Iron Man, Thor, Ant-Man, the Wasp, and the Hulk. Captain America didn't join until a few issues in, when the Avengers found him frozen in an iceberg (similar to the movie). By that time, Ant-Man had become Giant-Man (the character's real name was Hank Pym, and he would be a major character, in various incarnations, in the Marvel Universe throughout its history). For the sake of the movie, I'll give you Cap as a founding member, but Hawkeye and the Black Widow? Ugh. Yes, they too were major characters, but they were not founding Avengers. Also they're stupid. At least Hawkeye is. The Black Widow was kind of cool, but without the Cold War with the Soviet Union as a backdrop, her character loses her raison d'être. Plus, counting Cap, you now have THREE characters in a movie about super-heroes who have no super-powers. And one of them shoots arrows. Quite lame.

But that's not the only reason I'm not expecting much from Avengers. The main reason is that most of the movies made under the Marvel imprimatur just haven't been that good. The exception is the Iron Man franchise, which does an excellent job of capturing the feel of the original character, and also happen to be good action movies. But Thor was borderline unwatchable. He's a really hard character to do onscreen without having him look kind of dumb, and they did the best they could. Thor himself was an okay portrayal of the character, except that for most of the movie he wasn't even really Thor, he was just a hot guy in a tight black t-shirt. If I want that I can log on to any number of websites. If I go to a movie called Thor I wanna see THOR. Captain America was just okay. It wandered around with a lot of useless subplots. Cap was portrayed pretty well, although he was more interesting as weakling Steve Rogers. But Hugo Weaving's Red Skull was just fuckin dumb (in a rare miss for Weaving, who is normally excellent). I mean DUMB. Like the 1990s Captain America movie dumb (if you've never seen it, it's simply godawful). And the Hulk movies? The first one was complete shit. The Ed Norton one was decent -- as good as a Hulk movie could possibly be, I would say. But that's not saying much. The Hulk is, to my mind, a limited character. The long-term success of his comic book had a lot more to do with the interesting secondary characters (Thunderbolt Ross, Doc Samson, Glenn Talbot, etc.) and the cavalcade of guest characters who appeared in it (where else were you going to see Dr. Druid or the Soviet Super Troopers?). Unfortunately, the movie had none of that.

So I'd say Marvel's report card has been:

Iron Man - A
Iron Man 2 - B
Thor - D
Captain America - C
Hulk the first - F
Hulk the second - B-

That's a 2.12 GPA. Ain't exactly gonna get you into Harvard. So, given their record, I expect about a C grade Avengers. I hope I'm wrong, because these characters were such a big part of my formative years, but something tells me I won't be.



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#2 Chancellor Gunn

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Posted 02 April 2012 - 06:58 PM

The first Hulk was not done by Marvel.

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#3 Octavian

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Posted 02 April 2012 - 07:13 PM

I liked the first Iron Man. Infact I might watch it tomorrow :)

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#4 ᗅᗺᗷᗅ

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Posted 02 April 2012 - 07:14 PM

Ah, that's right. So that ups their numbers a bit, for sure. But they've still been largely underwhelming.

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#5 King Biscuit

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Posted 02 April 2012 - 09:48 PM

Now if you are grading Marvel movies, in fairness please rate the following:

Spiderman 1-3
X-Men 1-3
Origins: Wolverine
X-Men: First Class
Ghost Rider


Yes I know these have little to nothing to do with The Avengers. However, it's a Marvel Studios film, and for the proper GPA, you have to factor ALL of their movies.

Instant F for Ghost Rider IMHO.

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#6 Chancellor Gunn

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Posted 02 April 2012 - 10:22 PM

I liked Ghost Rider to an extent. I really, really liked X-Men first class.

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#7 ᗅᗺᗷᗅ

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Posted 03 April 2012 - 06:30 AM

Now if you are grading Marvel movies, in fairness please rate the following:

Spiderman 1-3
X-Men 1-3
Origins: Wolverine
X-Men: First Class
Ghost Rider


Yes I know these have little to nothing to do with The Avengers. However, it's a Marvel Studios film, and for the proper GPA, you have to factor ALL of their movies.

Instant F for Ghost Rider IMHO.


Those movies were licensed by Marvel Studios. They were not made directly by them. Only Iron Man, The Incredible Hulk, Iron Man 2, Thor, Captain America, and Avengers were made directly by Marvel (they were unhappy with the licensed films). For legal reasons, the X-Men, Spider-Man, Fantastic Four, and Ghost Rider franchises remain out of their direct control, and therefore are not part of the continuity of the Marvel Cinematic Universe.

And Ghost Rider was awful. X-Men: First Class I thought was pretty good, but they made a LOT of changes to the continuity, even the continuity established by the previous X-Men films. The Wolverine movie was execrable.

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#8 Chancellor Gunn

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Posted 03 April 2012 - 10:32 AM

I had to Google "execrable" lol

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#9 ᗅᗺᗷᗅ

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Posted 03 April 2012 - 08:22 PM

By the way the correct GPA, taking out the first Hulk movie (which for some reason I always think was made directly by Marvel Studios even though it was not), is 2.54. That's a C+ average, which is just about what I expect for Avengers.

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#10 Chancellor Gunn

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Posted 03 April 2012 - 09:03 PM

I think it will be better :laughing:

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#11 Haflinger

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Posted 04 April 2012 - 10:43 AM

I still think of Patrick Macnee when I hear this phrase.

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#12 ᗅᗺᗷᗅ

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Posted 04 April 2012 - 11:05 AM

Heh. When I was a kid I would see something called "The Avengers" listed on TV, and would tune in waiting for Captain America and Iron Man to show up. It was like a huge mindfuck.

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#13 ᗅᗺᗷᗅ

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Posted 04 April 2012 - 11:07 AM

I think it will be better :awesome:


I'm just going by their track record and what I've seen in previews. Better to go into it with low expectations and be pleasantly surprised than the other way around.

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#14 Haflinger

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Posted 06 April 2012 - 06:56 AM

To be fair, the Steed "The Avengers" movie looked really really awful. I still haven't seen it. So going by that precedent yours will be awful too. :nyancat:

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Posted 06 April 2012 - 12:47 PM

Wasn't it Ralph Fiennes? He's usually good. But yes, I've heard it was godawful.

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#16 Vvardenfell

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Posted 07 April 2012 - 10:09 AM

I think we should factor in who is involved in this movie, Joss Whedon, ie the guy who gave us buffy and firefly :blush: his dialogue is usually superb

#17 ᗅᗺᗷᗅ

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Posted 07 April 2012 - 02:22 PM

That might be comforting, except that Thor was done by Kenneth Branaugh, who is normally superb. Besides, Firefly is overrated.

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#18 Vvardenfell

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Posted 07 April 2012 - 02:32 PM

Ohh yeah forgot to mention, I quite liked Thor! I know you were disappointed that he wasnt very Thorish but it reminded me of what they had to do with the star trek movie. This guy summed it up very well




Edited by Vvardenfell, 07 April 2012 - 02:32 PM.


#19 ᗅᗺᗷᗅ

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Posted 07 April 2012 - 03:05 PM

The difference is that Star Trek was good. Thor was a steaming pile of poop. :blush:

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#20 Haflinger

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Posted 09 April 2012 - 09:33 AM

The original comic of Thor was a steaming pile of poop. One of the worst comics in the history of American comics. So making an awful movie out of it is just being authentic.

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