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#21 Manoka

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 10:53 PM

Shhh. The money is not in oil.. it is in no-bid contracts to Halliburton and billions of missing dollars

 

So, the invasion was all for 7 billion dollars to go to Halliburton?

 

In fact, there were Bids by Iraq, but then they chose the only company with sufficient equipment for the drilling.



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#22 Haflinger

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 11:35 PM

You guys appear to be labouring under the misapprehension that the US goes to war in the middle east to use oil reserves for the benefit of American consumers. It does not. It goes to war in the middle east to use oil reserves for the benefit of megacorporations, some of whom may be thought of as marginally American.



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#23 Manoka

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 11:50 PM

Okay, then why are these corporations not giving taxes to the U.S., why are they under control of other country's, why are we getting nothing for it ,so and so forth, and why do all the bad guys happen to be dictators and such when there are perfectly good countrys, like Canada and Suadi Arabia, with far cheaper oil to invade and take?


Edited by Manoka, 27 August 2013 - 11:51 PM.


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#24 Redezra

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 11:56 PM

Yus :3



#25 King Biscuit

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Posted 28 August 2013 - 12:01 AM

You guys appear to be labouring under the misapprehension that the US goes to war in the middle east to use oil reserves for the benefit of American consumers. It does not. It goes to war in the middle east to use oil reserves for the benefit of megacorporations, some of whom may be thought of as marginally American.

 

We actually do it to preserve the petro-dollar.

Without it we are screwed.



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#26 Redezra

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Posted 28 August 2013 - 12:19 AM

Yeah, the first mistake is to believe the US government does anything to try and benefit consumers. I mean, they might try, but they don't succeed.



#27 King Biscuit

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Posted 28 August 2013 - 03:05 AM

Iran's foreign minister warns West not to strike Syria

By Ben Brumfield, CNN
updated 3:30 AM EDT, Wed August 28, 2013
130827105812-syria-0827-horizontal-galle
A Free Syrian Army fighter takes position behind sandbags in the old city of Aleppo, Syria, on Tuesday, August 27. Syria has warned Western leaders against taking any military action after international outrage over the country's suspected use of chemical weapons. Tensions in Syria began to flare in March 2011 and have escalated into an ongoing civil war. Click through to view the most compelling images taken since the start of the conflict.

 

(CNN) -- Iran's foreign minister Mohammad Javad Zarif condemned any possible military intervention in Syria Wednesday,

warning of "graver conditions," should strikes be carried out, Iran's Fars state news agency reported.

He likened threats of an attack to a return to "the Middle Ages."

The United States has deployed war ships off the coast of Syria, and Western powers say a strike on Syria

could be imminent after reports of a chemical weapons attack that killed hundreds.



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#28 Redezra

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Posted 28 August 2013 - 06:54 AM

Don't want none of them Crusades, clearly



#29 Haflinger

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Posted 28 August 2013 - 06:56 AM

Okay, then why are these corporations not giving taxes to the U.S., why are they under control of other country's, why are we getting nothing for it ,so and so forth, and why do all the bad guys happen to be dictators and such when there are perfectly good countrys, like Canada and Suadi Arabia, with far cheaper oil to invade and take?

The megacorps already control the Canadian oilfields.

The Saudis are a weird mistake by the US government. For some reason your government has decided that they are a useful ally, despite their role in the creation of organizations like Al-Qaeda, and uses them for strategic purposes in the Middle East.



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#30 Redezra

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Posted 28 August 2013 - 08:20 AM

I wish to visit this... "Swadi Rabia" that manoka mentions :P

No honestly I don't. I just thought the awful spelling of Saudi needed to be pointed out



#31 Manoka

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Posted 28 August 2013 - 12:02 PM

Okay, then why are these corporations not giving taxes to the U.S., why are they under control of other country's, why are we getting nothing for it ,so and so forth, and why do all the bad guys happen to be dictators and such when there are perfectly good countrys, like Canada and Suadi Arabia, with far cheaper oil to invade and take?

The megacorps already control the Canadian oilfields.

The Saudis are a weird mistake by the US government. For some reason your government has decided that they are a useful ally, despite their role in the creation of organizations like Al-Qaeda, and uses them for strategic purposes in the Middle East.

Really, we created Al Qaeda?

 

I could believe you confusing the Taliban with the Mujahideen but where did you get THAT from, it's an entirely separate organization.

 

 

They were around before the U.S. ever even got involved in the Afghanistan soviet war.



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#32 Haflinger

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Posted 28 August 2013 - 02:02 PM

No, the Saudis created Al-Qaeda. You do know that bin Laden is a Saudi, right?

 

They've got to be the worst allies the US has ever had.



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#33 King Biscuit

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Posted 28 August 2013 - 02:08 PM

No, the Saudis created Al-Qaeda. You do know that bin Laden is a Saudi, right?

They've got to be the worst allies the US has ever had.

We gave them billions from 1989-1992 to fight the Russians.

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#34 Manoka

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Posted 28 August 2013 - 03:23 PM

No, the Saudis created Al-Qaeda. You do know that bin Laden is a Saudi, right?

 

They've got to be the worst allies the US has ever had.

 

Not everyone is in Suadi Arabia are allies.



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#35 Princess xR1

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Posted 28 August 2013 - 04:52 PM

Bin Laden was a reject of the Saudi Royal Family.



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#36 Octavian

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Posted 28 August 2013 - 05:04 PM

Oh snap, US getting involved with something across the world.

 

/shock and horror\



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#37 PrinceVegeta

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Posted 28 August 2013 - 05:24 PM

Oh snap, US getting involved with something across the world.

 

/shock and horror\

 

UK and France too. :P



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#38 ᗅᗺᗷᗅ

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Posted 28 August 2013 - 05:33 PM

I think everyone needs to take a breath.

 

First off, we're not talking about full-scale war here.  We're talking about air strikes.  This is less Iraq redux and more Libya redux.  Assad should take notice — Qaddafi was stabbed in the ass several times before he was finally killed.  Bad enough to be overthrown and murdered, but stabbed in the ass seriously sucks.

 

Second, there is no desire on the part of the United States government to do this.  In fact we have dragged our feet from day one.  As soon as that chemical weapons attack was reported you could almost hear the White House saying "shit."  The president had, after all, very publicly drawn a line in the sand (ha!) on Syria, stating that the use of chemical weapons on a civilian population would be seen as a justification for intervention.  Still, we've known about the attack for a while now, and so far all the administration has done is dawdle and delay and hope something else in the news cycle knocks this off the media's — and the public's — radar.  But the media were not going to let them off that easy.

 

It now looks like there will be air strikes.  These will likely have the effect of shattering the Assad regime's hold on power, allowing the rebels to win.  It really is startling how much it resembles Libya.  And the problems are the same, too.  Assad was a devil we knew; who comes after him is anyone's guess.  What if the Assad regime fell and was replaced by an Islamic one?  That's not likely to do anything to ease tensions in the region.  More than likely the fighting will not end with Assad's fall; multiple factions that have found common cause would quickly factionalize.  Terrorist organizations like Hezbollah would be huge players.  It would be a frigging mess.

 

Or rather, it will be a frigging mess, since it now seems all but inevitable.  I hope in a year I remember this thread.  :)

 

Now, there has been some suggestion that the chemical weapons attack was some kind of frame-up, the implication being that "we" (i.e. the CIA) did it in order to give us a reason to go to war.  This seems unlikely.  First of all, it presupposes a desire on the part of the United States government to intervene, and as we've already seen, no such desire exists.  In fact quite the contrary.  Funny how history moves sometimes, isn't it?  None of the major powers wanted war in 1914, yet a confluence of events forced an inevitable outcome.  Despite their best efforts at avoiding it, it seems this government now has virtually no choice but to take some action.  It's like a double-dog dare with geopolitical consequences and god knows how many innocent deaths.

I do, however, agree with the assertion that the timing of the chemical weapons attack seemed awfully convenient, what with UN inspectors having only just arrived in the country.  But it seems to me that if we accept the premise that the attack was a frame-up done to make Assad look bad, then the next logical question is who stood to benefit?  It seems to me the prime suspects are the rebel forces themselves.

 

The other people who will gain are the military contractors and assorted hangers-on who stand to make bank if the US starts dropping bombs.  But those guys tend to exert their will politically.  Watch for a sizable number of Congress to be on board with this.  The GOP, for the most part, won't like it because Obama is president and everything he does is pure, uncorrupted evil.  Seriously, he could propose eliminating the IRS and the Department of Education and they'd yell and scream and say it was a socialist plot.  And the far left are opposed to war because they agree with Edwin Starr that WAR is ultimately good for NOTHIN.'  Say it again.  And of course the libertarians and Tea Party types, who tend to be isolationist to begin with.  Really the only people Obama has on his side are the corporate types.  Some socialist.  But a lot of members on both sides of the aisle will quietly be okay with it, some maybe even not so quietly, because whatever business interest has him/her in their pocket will be salivating for American intervention.  I bet there are a LOT of boners at Halliburton right now.

 

The mere fact that Big Money would love it if the US took lucrative military action in Syria should speak volumes about just how much the administration does not want to do it.  These guys are practically Obama's base.  For a man who came to office preaching change, Barack Obama has proven almost pathologically unwilling to shake up the status quo.  But that's a separate rant.

Bottom line:  I doubt we're looking at "war."  We're looking at air strikes.  Still killing people, and to the person whose child is killed as "collateral damage" I'm sure the distinction means nothing.  But I sincerely doubt we will see American soldiers on the ground in Syria.  In fact I think we're looking at a mess.  We're good at making messes.



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#39 King Biscuit

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Posted 28 August 2013 - 06:38 PM

Aye, the Lord Protector speaks!

So here's my question, along with many congressperson's:
Where is the legal precidence?
What give us the right the attack a sovereign nation?

Sure, Serin, but consider the following:
1. Syria is not a threat to OUR national security.
2. NATO and the UN do NOT superceed(sp) Congress.

Now please correct me if I'm wrong, but the War Powers Act only allows us to "war" for 60 days without congressional approval IF our national security is at risk.

So, I'll ask again:
What gives us the right, and where is the legal authority to attack Syria?

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#40 Petar Kresimir

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Posted 28 August 2013 - 06:59 PM

I do not know what the legal precedent would be, but the military precedent would not be Libya, or even Iraq. It would be the air strikes on Kosovo and Serbia in 1999.

 

Apparently, under Canada's leadership of the Security Council in 2005, a principle called "responsibility to act" was accepted, stating that the international community had the right to intervene in a nation when blatant abuse of human rights was being committed in a nation, and the Government of that nation was incapable/unwilling to do something about it - even without the approval of the Security Council. If true, that would provide the legal justification... but still, it's a long shot.




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