Jump to content


Photo

Are you politically correct?


  • Please log in to reply
83 replies to this topic

Poll: Are you politically correct? (22 member(s) have cast votes)

Are you politically correct?

  1. Yes (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  2. No (17 votes [77.27%])

    Percentage of vote: 77.27%

  3. I dunno (5 votes [22.73%])

    Percentage of vote: 22.73%

Vote Guests cannot vote

#21 ᗅᗺᗷᗅ

ᗅᗺᗷᗅ

    The Invictan Formerly Known as Jorost

  • Lord Protector
  • 16192 posts
  • Gender:Household pet that walked across the keyboard - male
  • Location:Massachusetts
  • Ruler Name:Jorost
  • Nation Name:Invicta Crownlands
  • IRC Nick:Jorost
  • Alliance Name:Invicta
  • Nation Link






Posted 06 October 2015 - 06:24 PM

Both Obama and Clinton are widely recognized as political centrists.

 

That very much depends of how far left the person making that judgement is herself, wouldn't you say? E.g. from a Syriza (or a similar) perspective, Obama and Clinton might be regarded as conservatives.

 

For American political figures they are both centrist, slightly to the left of Margaret Thatcher on the Political Compass.



Member Awards ()

#22 Haflinger

Haflinger

    Flipper

  • Foreign Diplomat
  • 10259 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Ruler Name:Haflinger
  • Nation Name:Llonach
  • IRC Nick:Haflinger
  • Nation Link

Posted 06 October 2015 - 09:05 PM

lol

 

The problem with that is that Maggie Thatcher, for most of the world, is a far-right radical extremist.



Member Awards ()

#23 Lord Draculea

Lord Draculea
  • Former Member
  • 1087 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Bucuresti
  • Ruler Name:Lord Draculea
  • Nation Name:Romania
  • IRC Nick:LordDraculea
  • Nation Link

Posted 07 October 2015 - 12:02 AM

She seems kind of centrist to me...   :D



#24 Haflinger

Haflinger

    Flipper

  • Foreign Diplomat
  • 10259 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Ruler Name:Haflinger
  • Nation Name:Llonach
  • IRC Nick:Haflinger
  • Nation Link

Posted 07 October 2015 - 06:38 AM

I guess, compared to Ceaușescu, most anyone who wasn't a raving loony would seem like a centrist.



Member Awards ()

#25 Lord Draculea

Lord Draculea
  • Former Member
  • 1087 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Bucuresti
  • Ruler Name:Lord Draculea
  • Nation Name:Romania
  • IRC Nick:LordDraculea
  • Nation Link

Posted 07 October 2015 - 09:41 AM

My referential in this discussion is the Western (democratic) political system. Leaders like Ceausescu are products of totalitarianism, and are therefore off-topic (unless you want to change the topic :) ).

#26 Haflinger

Haflinger

    Flipper

  • Foreign Diplomat
  • 10259 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Ruler Name:Haflinger
  • Nation Name:Llonach
  • IRC Nick:Haflinger
  • Nation Link

Posted 07 October 2015 - 09:45 AM

Oh, I wasn't talking about Western politics. I was just talking about politics.

 

But seriously, there are a lot of Western countries where Thatcher would be too right-wing to be conceivably electable. Pretty much the whole of Western Europe with the exception of France, for example.



Member Awards ()

#27 Redezra

Redezra

    ~>:BAMF:<~

  • Invicta: Knight
  • 7728 posts
  • Gender:Sentient artificial intelligence - identifies as female
  • Location::D
  • Ruler Name:Redezra
  • Nation Name:Jorostopia
  • IRC Nick:Redezra
  • Alliance Name:Invicta
  • Nation Link


Posted 07 October 2015 - 07:55 PM

I wouldn't say radical. Hard right conservative economic policy? Sure. But she's also likes strong and large govts, something Americans consider hard left.

 

Also, in a weird twist given my family is half welsh, I think Thatcher was pretty cool, and did what was necessary when it was necessary. And she absolutely destrooooyed people in question time.



#28 ᗅᗺᗷᗅ

ᗅᗺᗷᗅ

    The Invictan Formerly Known as Jorost

  • Lord Protector
  • 16192 posts
  • Gender:Household pet that walked across the keyboard - male
  • Location:Massachusetts
  • Ruler Name:Jorost
  • Nation Name:Invicta Crownlands
  • IRC Nick:Jorost
  • Alliance Name:Invicta
  • Nation Link






Posted 07 October 2015 - 10:24 PM

lol

The problem with that is that Maggie Thatcher, for most of the world, is a far-right radical extremist.


Hence the caveat "for American political figures." We are a pretty right wing country by world standards, so our centrists are other countries' conservatives. Barack Obama would be at home in any center-right party in Western Europe.

 

The party with which I most identify is probably SAP, the Swedish Social Democratic Party. But then I have a soft spot for Swedes.



Member Awards ()

#29 the rebel

the rebel
  • Former Member
  • 1961 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Manchester UK
  • Ruler Name:the rebel
  • Nation Name:rebellion
  • IRC Nick:TheRebel
  • Nation Link

Posted 08 October 2015 - 03:00 AM

I have a soft spot for Swedes.


Not surprised really, as they are tasty :P

Member Awards ()

#30 Haflinger

Haflinger

    Flipper

  • Foreign Diplomat
  • 10259 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Ruler Name:Haflinger
  • Nation Name:Llonach
  • IRC Nick:Haflinger
  • Nation Link

Posted 08 October 2015 - 09:47 AM

I wouldn't say radical. Hard right conservative economic policy? Sure. But she's also likes strong and large govts, something Americans consider hard left.

She hated large government. Whose history have you been reading? She dismantled as much of the British government as she could lay her hands on.

 

As far as she was concerned, the only purpose the British government had was fighting Argentina. Other than that, she would have disbanded every department if she could.



Member Awards ()

#31 ᗅᗺᗷᗅ

ᗅᗺᗷᗅ

    The Invictan Formerly Known as Jorost

  • Lord Protector
  • 16192 posts
  • Gender:Household pet that walked across the keyboard - male
  • Location:Massachusetts
  • Ruler Name:Jorost
  • Nation Name:Invicta Crownlands
  • IRC Nick:Jorost
  • Alliance Name:Invicta
  • Nation Link






Posted 08 October 2015 - 10:46 AM

Yeah, Margaret Thatcher was pretty conservative, as indicated by her position on the Political Compass. Pretty authoritarian too.

 

political_compass_famous.jpg



Member Awards ()

#32 Redezra

Redezra

    ~>:BAMF:<~

  • Invicta: Knight
  • 7728 posts
  • Gender:Sentient artificial intelligence - identifies as female
  • Location::D
  • Ruler Name:Redezra
  • Nation Name:Jorostopia
  • IRC Nick:Redezra
  • Alliance Name:Invicta
  • Nation Link


Posted 09 October 2015 - 08:11 PM

Uhm.... I've been reading everything everyone else was reading? What have you been reading?

 

No honestly I thought she was strong state anti-unions. At least that's how my Welsh family remembers her.



#33 ᗅᗺᗷᗅ

ᗅᗺᗷᗅ

    The Invictan Formerly Known as Jorost

  • Lord Protector
  • 16192 posts
  • Gender:Household pet that walked across the keyboard - male
  • Location:Massachusetts
  • Ruler Name:Jorost
  • Nation Name:Invicta Crownlands
  • IRC Nick:Jorost
  • Alliance Name:Invicta
  • Nation Link






Posted 10 October 2015 - 07:52 AM

Whenever Thatcher is mentioned I think of the nickname they used to call her, Attila the Hen.



Member Awards ()

#34 Lord Draculea

Lord Draculea
  • Former Member
  • 1087 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Bucuresti
  • Ruler Name:Lord Draculea
  • Nation Name:Romania
  • IRC Nick:LordDraculea
  • Nation Link

Posted 10 October 2015 - 09:14 AM

Thatcher was a true leader. The kind of leader the world is so much missing today...



#35 ᗅᗺᗷᗅ

ᗅᗺᗷᗅ

    The Invictan Formerly Known as Jorost

  • Lord Protector
  • 16192 posts
  • Gender:Household pet that walked across the keyboard - male
  • Location:Massachusetts
  • Ruler Name:Jorost
  • Nation Name:Invicta Crownlands
  • IRC Nick:Jorost
  • Alliance Name:Invicta
  • Nation Link






Posted 10 October 2015 - 10:04 AM

Ehh... She was pretty destructive to the social fabric of her country. Very much a British Reagan. I understand you have a different perspective, Draculea, coming from a former Eastern Bloc country. To you she looks like a hero, but to many on this side of the Iron Curtain she looked like a warmonger and a corporate tool.

 

On a related side note, I wrote a letter to Margaret Thatcher when I was 9 or 10 years old and got a lovely response (although I'm sure it was just a form letter that some staff member sent). I was in the habit of writing to world leaders and collecting their autographs.



Member Awards ()

#36 the rebel

the rebel
  • Former Member
  • 1961 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Manchester UK
  • Ruler Name:the rebel
  • Nation Name:rebellion
  • IRC Nick:TheRebel
  • Nation Link

Posted 10 October 2015 - 04:15 PM

Ehh... She was pretty destructive to the social fabric of her country. Very much a British Reagan. I understand you have a different perspective, Draculea, coming from a former Eastern Bloc country. To you she looks like a hero, but to many on this side of the Iron Curtain she looked like a warmonger and a corporate tool.

On a related side note, I wrote a letter to Margaret Thatcher when I was 9 or 10 years old and got a lovely response (although I'm sure it was just a form letter that some staff member sent). I was in the habit of writing to world leaders and collecting their autographs.


The businesses and public in general liked her enough to keep her in office regardless of the suspect policies she remained popular to a degree. It is ironic though it wasn't business or the public that ejected her from power, it was her own party that turned on her due to her no bullshit approach to what became the EU. The pro EU elements within the Tory party managed to get a knife in her back.

Member Awards ()

#37 ᗅᗺᗷᗅ

ᗅᗺᗷᗅ

    The Invictan Formerly Known as Jorost

  • Lord Protector
  • 16192 posts
  • Gender:Household pet that walked across the keyboard - male
  • Location:Massachusetts
  • Ruler Name:Jorost
  • Nation Name:Invicta Crownlands
  • IRC Nick:Jorost
  • Alliance Name:Invicta
  • Nation Link






Posted 10 October 2015 - 04:46 PM

Ehh... The tide of popular opinion — and history — was beginning to turn against her by then. Call it the beginning of the end. But since when has popular = good? All popularity means is that someone is a popular leader. It doesn't mean they are any good. Many leaders are popular in their time, only to be looked upon less favorably with the hindsight of history. American President Calvin Coolidge is a good example of this. Highly popular in his time, he is now regarded as bad manager whose laissez-faire policies created the conditions that would lead to the Great Depression.

On the other hand, some of our greatest leaders were not always recognized as such in their time. Abraham Lincoln, for example, widely regarded as the greatest of American presidents, was an extremely polarizing figure in his day, with a large and vocal minority who outright despised him. He was never widely popular in his lifetime. It was only later that his greatness was recognized.

 

Margaret Thatcher and Ronald Reagan represent the British and American avatars of the same political phenomenon: the rise of the modern right wing in Anglo politics. The less well-known Brian Mulroney is the Canadian representative. In the United States, it was characterized by the dominance of two groups: the religious right and what came to be called "neocons." The religious angle was uniquely American, but otherwise this movement's aims were the same all over the globe: the tearing down of social safety structures and the privatization of the state.

 

Now, to someone who grew up in Romania, the phrase "privatization of the state" probably sounds pretty good. That is perfectly understandable — after all, what good has the state ever done for the people of Romania? I don't know much about the modern government, other than a vague understanding that it is a parliamentary democracy. I imagine they do they best they can, but communist dictatorship left a huge economic, social, and political mess to clean up. It can't be easy. And before that? I've read about Romania under Ceaușescu; it was one of the most oppressive regimes in the world. Like North Korea bad. I'm sure Draculea can speak to this with much greater knowledge and conviction. Suffice it to say that Romania under Ceaușescu was about as bad as a government can get.

 

And that's the thing: It's an extreme example. Even the worst government in the developed world is still orders of magnitude better than the government of Ceaușescu's Romania. I would take Thatcher or Reagan over Ceaușescu any day! It's all a matter of degrees.



Member Awards ()

#38 the rebel

the rebel
  • Former Member
  • 1961 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Manchester UK
  • Ruler Name:the rebel
  • Nation Name:rebellion
  • IRC Nick:TheRebel
  • Nation Link

Posted 10 October 2015 - 06:35 PM

On the other hand, some of our greatest leaders were not always recognized as such in their time. Abraham Lincoln, for example, widely regarded as the greatest of American presidents, was an extremely polarizing figure in his day, with a large and vocal minority who outright despised him. He was never widely popular in his lifetime. It was only later that his greatness was recognized.


A minority? Ignoring his disregard of the constitution, he did a whole lot of shit things that if it happened today he would be seen as one of the worst Presidents and people think GWB and Obama were bad. :P

Member Awards ()

#39 Lord Draculea

Lord Draculea
  • Former Member
  • 1087 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Bucuresti
  • Ruler Name:Lord Draculea
  • Nation Name:Romania
  • IRC Nick:LordDraculea
  • Nation Link

Posted 10 October 2015 - 07:14 PM

It is not called "privatization of the state", Jorost, but "privatization of the state-owned companies".  :D  And I'm sure in every Western country it only sounds bad to the leftists. Could you maybe tell me how well were the state-owned companies doing in Britain before Thatcher privatized them (or closed them if they could not be sold)? As far as I can remember from my history readings, Britain was on the verge of economic collapse when the socialists were finally thrown away from power. Or is that also a matter of perspective?



#40 Redezra

Redezra

    ~>:BAMF:<~

  • Invicta: Knight
  • 7728 posts
  • Gender:Sentient artificial intelligence - identifies as female
  • Location::D
  • Ruler Name:Redezra
  • Nation Name:Jorostopia
  • IRC Nick:Redezra
  • Alliance Name:Invicta
  • Nation Link


Posted 10 October 2015 - 07:46 PM

No, they were on the verge of collapse.

 

Ugh, real talk:

 

Sometimes, you're in a situation in which the way out is unpalatable. In the case of the UK before Thatcher, if they did not have Thatcher, it would have been a long, dark time for the UK. Sometimes the only solution is somewhere under the ideology you hate. Right wing people need to realise that sometimes the best move is left. Left wing people need to realise the best move is sometimes right. Both wings need to realise that this happens far more often than they think it can.

 

If governing structures followed this kind of rationalist path, we would have a lot less problems in the world.




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users