23 replies to this topic

[Manoka]

http://www.smh.com.a...813-giyuuo.html

 

 

Los Angeles: A Russian newspaper posted an audiotape on its website that purports to reveal two US spies plotting to bring down Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 over Ukraine last year.

One hitch: The conversations are so stilted and oddly worded that they have been widely dismissed by native English speakers as obviously fake.

 

The two men alleged to be Americans, identified by Komsomolskaya Pravda in its Wednesday posting as David Hamilton and David Lloyd Stern, speak with accents and in words and phrases that resemble Russian manners of speaking that have been translated into English and read from a script.

 

An attached photo is of freelance journalist David Stern, who is based in Kiev and has reported for the BBC on events in Ukraine. The other is supposed to be a David Hamilton who works as an international affairs consultant and an adviser to USAID, a US website reported.

 

"Hello. How are the preparations?" the voice identified as Hamilton opens the call said to have been made on June 25, 2014, about three weeks before MH17 was shot out of the sky by what investigators have widely suspected was a Russian-made ground-to-air missile.

 

 

[He who posts]

To quote a Russian. 

 

 

I wonder how does western media even find this stuff. I mean, this newspaper is an A-grade yellow press that prints stories about aliens/conspiracy theories/gossips about stars/other shit, and no one takes it seriously. We have tonns of similar press, but somehow if they print something connected to Ukraine or politics, it's almost inevitably goes worldwide labeled as propaganda and bias. 

Guys, we have an abundance of both, but this one is not propaganda, it's just a shitty press printing shit.

[Manoka]

To quote a Russian. 

 

 

I wonder how does western media even find this stuff. I mean, this newspaper is an A-grade yellow press that prints stories about aliens/conspiracy theories/gossips about stars/other shit, and no one takes it seriously. We have tonns of similar press, but somehow if they print something connected to Ukraine or politics, it's almost inevitably goes worldwide labeled as propaganda and bias. 

Guys, we have an abundance of both, but this one is not propaganda, it's just a shitty press printing shit.

Probably a Russian mole.

 

Although, RT seems to support this theory... 

 

http://www.rt.com/op...-false-ukraine/

 

I just thought it was funny. xP

[He who posts]

Would debunk most Russian shit but really it would be a waste of time. As the RT propaganda machine will just burry you in a pile of other theories if you survived the first few. . 

 

The key questions before giving blame to anyone, which have been completely ignored by the Ukrainian government in Kiev, by the Obama Administration in Washington, by most Western media, are why did the pilot divert from his usual flight plan? Why did he fly above restricted airspace? And just what, if any instructions, did Kiev air control give the pilot in the minutes before the tragic explosion?

Called avoiding bad weather and flight plans get entered before flying and can be heavily different when flying. 

It's completely false that it was the only plane flying above that area in those days. Blabla blabla.

 

They should be happy that Dutch and Australian troops were never send which were on standby after the crash. 

[the rebel]

Been widely dismissed by those who speak native English, whom are these native English? You're confused it's by native American English speakers.

Will give the video a watch after work.

[Manoka]

Would debunk most Russian shit but really it would be a waste of time. As the RT propaganda machine will just burry you in a pile of other theories if you survived the first few. . 

 

The key questions before giving blame to anyone, which have been completely ignored by the Ukrainian government in Kiev, by the Obama Administration in Washington, by most Western media, are why did the pilot divert from his usual flight plan? Why did he fly above restricted airspace? And just what, if any instructions, did Kiev air control give the pilot in the minutes before the tragic explosion?

Called avoiding bad weather and flight plans get entered before flying and can be heavily different when flying. 

It's completely false that it was the only plane flying above that area in those days. Blabla blabla.

 

They should be happy that Dutch and Australian troops were never send which were on standby after the crash. 

RT is supported by Russia's government, but of course we have to imagine that they may only partially believe in this story. 

 

Still a common thing, though. 

[ᗅᗺᗷᗅ]

The thing is, the Russians actually believe this stuff. They are paranoid about the United States and other Western powers trying to undermine Russia's position in the world. VICE's season finale this year was a special report on the state of Russian-American relations and how badly they have deteriorated. It was eye-opening. Watch Shane Smith's debrief on it here.

[King Biscuit]

The thing is, the Russians actually believe this stuff. They are paranoid about the United States and other Western powers trying to undermine Russia's position in the world. VICE's season finale this year was a special report on the state of Russian-American relations and how badly they have deteriorated. It was eye-opening. Watch Shane Smith's debrief on it here.

Also read The Next 100 Years.
Brilliant.

[Manoka]

The thing is, the Russians actually believe this stuff. They are paranoid about the United States and other Western powers trying to undermine Russia's position in the world. VICE's season finale this year was a special report on the state of Russian-American relations and how badly they have deteriorated. It was eye-opening. Watch Shane Smith's debrief on it here.

Well, I already know that the Relations have deteriorated badly, I remember back when Russia was sending warships to stop us from going into Syria. 

 

One of the reason's Rebel attacked me was over the fact I told him that Russia was being pretty evilsz, and at the time he didn't believe me. Now it's kind of accepted as fact. To me, the escalation of force to try and stop the Americans from intervening in an internationally condemned conflict was pretty staggering, and just a few months later they invaded Ukraine. Supposedly, they have been planning this years in advance, which also didn't come off as that surprising. A lot of the snipers and other people in the crowd were thought to be Russian, who fired on the protesters, in an attempt to spark riots and thus provide a reason to intervene. It also wasn't that surprising that so many Ukrainians, such as the president, defected over to Russia soon after. 

 

I remember reading about the riots over the "Euromaiden", and how it was over Russia had been stopping them from taking certain economic deals, and even military aid from the U.S., who had been building anti-nuke missiles there. The U.S. eventually pulled these things out but, clearly Russia had been planning something the whole time. It's also insane it's escalated to this, but on the other, it's really pretty logical. I literally expect Russian paratroopers or an EMP to go off over the U.S. every day.

[King Biscuit]

An outright attack on the American homeland would be political and literal suicide for Putin.
Expect more proxy wars instead.
He'll get what he wants and his hands will stay nice and clean.

[He who posts]

Would debunk most Russian shit but really it would be a waste of time. As the RT propaganda machine will just burry you in a pile of other theories if you survived the first few. . 

 

The key questions before giving blame to anyone, which have been completely ignored by the Ukrainian government in Kiev, by the Obama Administration in Washington, by most Western media, are why did the pilot divert from his usual flight plan? Why did he fly above restricted airspace? And just what, if any instructions, did Kiev air control give the pilot in the minutes before the tragic explosion?

Called avoiding bad weather and flight plans get entered before flying and can be heavily different when flying. 

It's completely false that it was the only plane flying above that area in those days. Blabla blabla.

 

They should be happy that Dutch and Australian troops were never send which were on standby after the crash. 

RT is supported by Russia's government, but of course we have to imagine that they may only partially believe in this story. 

 

Still a common thing, though. 

If you observe what RT writes it has more negative stuff about the US than fox news can think of while never anything bad gets written about Russia. Its a propaganda station, just like Sputnik International. But the comment section they have are great, filled with stuff that would even get you banned on stormfront for to much racism.

[Chax]

Would debunk most Russian shit but really it would be a waste of time. As the RT propaganda machine will just burry you in a pile of other theories if you survived the first few. . 

 

The key questions before giving blame to anyone, which have been completely ignored by the Ukrainian government in Kiev, by the Obama Administration in Washington, by most Western media, are why did the pilot divert from his usual flight plan? Why did he fly above restricted airspace? And just what, if any instructions, did Kiev air control give the pilot in the minutes before the tragic explosion?

Called avoiding bad weather and flight plans get entered before flying and can be heavily different when flying. 

It's completely false that it was the only plane flying above that area in those days. Blabla blabla.

 

They should be happy that Dutch and Australian troops were never send which were on standby after the crash. 

lol if you don't think Putin would have dropped support of the DNR the second NATO troops landed in Ukraine. 

[Martynski]

Its comical reading you guys moaning about Russian propaganda when the western media has been pumping out Russophobic propaganda for a couple of years now. 

 

You all assume the DPR downed MH17 despite not a shred of evidence being provided to support this and despite the investigation having not yet reported. The US has provided no satellite data on missile launches despite having it, and Kiev refuses to hand over ATC voice recordings to the investigation.  

 

None of that strikes you as odd. You don't care to ask why ATC re-routed MH17 over Donbas, or why a Ukrainian fighter was trailing it. 

 

You don't care and you don't ask. That's because the real victims of propaganda are people like you - but victims of western not Russian information warfare.  

[Manoka]

Its comical reading you guys moaning about Russian propaganda when the western media has been pumping out Russophobic propaganda for a couple of years now. 

 

You all assume the DPR downed MH17 despite not a shred of evidence being provided to support this and despite the investigation having not yet reported. The US has provided no satellite data on missile launches despite having it, and Kiev refuses to hand over ATC voice recordings to the investigation.  

 

None of that strikes you as odd. You don't care to ask why ATC re-routed MH17 over Donbas, or why a Ukrainian fighter was trailing it. 

 

You don't care and you don't ask. That's because the real victims of propaganda are people like you - but victims of western not Russian information warfare.  

Well, Russia is actually doing bad things, like invading Crimea or other parts of Ukraine, which is actually bad, and so it's not really propaganda, if it's true. Although that depends on your definition of propaganda. 

 

There is no solid proof that a Ukraine fighter jet was tailing the aircraft, and there is plenty of proof that the plane was definitively shot down by a Buk missile system. [1][2] This even according to the manufacturer of BUK missiles. "Malaysia said Saturday intelligence reports on the downing of Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 are "pretty conclusive"

 

 

According to German intelligence reports [1] it was fired by the pro-Russian forces, where as Bellingcat, an independent investigative group, has found the same thing. [1][2] 

 

The U.S. did release satellite photos, a lot of them actually. [1][2]In fact, Russian images have even been discredited. [1]

 

 

While the official report by the international group has yet to be released, the pre-report has, that pretty much confirms that it was by Pro-Russian forces.

[Manoka]

An outright attack on the American homeland would be political and literal suicide for Putin.
Expect more proxy wars instead.
He'll get what he wants and his hands will stay nice and clean.

Putin's unstable, desperate, pretty brash and willing to do things that are seemingly suicidal, like ban food imports into Russia, when Russia is freezing cold and notoriously unable to produce food. He's flown bomber planes within miles of the U.S., closer than the soviets ever did, in an attempt to intimidate us. If he's insane as he comes off as, than, it's not that unreasonable that actually attacking us in an attempt to intimidate us might be his plan. But they may primarily work through a proxy. 

 

And by that I mean, spetsnaz troops embedded within foreign troops in a thinly veiled attempt to disguise Russian involvement.

[He who posts]

Meanwhile they have hilarious trust in China which can laugh as they now can buy cheap Russian shit but don't need Russia in any of their future plans.

[Chax]

where as Bellingcat, an independent investigative group

 

Oh hey that's me

Edited by Cappin' Pissflapps, 18 August 2015 - 10:26 PM.

[Redezra]

Its comical reading you guys moaning about Russian propaganda when the western media has been pumping out Russophobic propaganda for a couple of years now. 

 

You all assume the DPR downed MH17 despite not a shred of evidence being provided to support this and despite the investigation having not yet reported. The US has provided no satellite data on missile launches despite having it, and Kiev refuses to hand over ATC voice recordings to the investigation.  

 

None of that strikes you as odd. You don't care to ask why ATC re-routed MH17 over Donbas, or why a Ukrainian fighter was trailing it. 

 

You don't care and you don't ask. That's because the real victims of propaganda are people like you - but victims of western not Russian information warfare.  

 

 

Current known evidence + occams razor leaves you with this:

 

Russians give eastern ukraine weapons to secure themselves against western ukraine. 

Eastern Ukraine shoots down a plane they think looks like an enemy transport plane.

Plane is actually passenger jet.

West blames Russia, wrongly.

Russia blames West accordingly.

Large war of words start.

 

I refuse to believe that complex conspiracies are readily found in the world. The ATC people that redirected MH-17 would know about who gave them orders to do the redirect, and yet they have not spoken out. I have seen no leaks on Ukranian intel suggesting that they were planning to shoot down a passenger plane. Australian VIPs were on that plane, and our country is in the US's inner circle as far as covert ops are concerned, which suggests the USA could not have known, something no evidence has ever been produced for either. These are things that would have become apparent in this day and age of leaks. The amount of people that would need to be in on this for it to be leak tight precludes it being a viable option.

 

The facts are that a plane was shot down and that both sides have attempted to use it for their own ends, disregarding the terrible loss of innocent life in the process. Governments may be unfeeling dicks for using this to their advantage, but they're not monstrous horrors that would intentionally murder civis and somehow get away clean.

 

Seriously. Conspiracy wankers, get a hold of yourselves. People are stupid and lazy, that includes the people at the top.

[Lord Draculea]

"Euromaiden"

 

Lol! 

 

Also read The Next 100 Years.
Brilliant.

 

Once I finish it, I'm going to search for some good comments on the book. I already have a bunch of questions, it will be interesting to see if and how they have already been addressed by others.

[the rebel]

Governments may be unfeeling dicks for using this to their advantage, but they're not monstrous horrors that would intentionally murder civis and somehow get away clean.

What's it like looking at the world through the eyes of a child?