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The F Word


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Poll: The F Word (13 member(s) have cast votes)

Do you consider yourself a feminist?

  1. Yes (4 votes [30.77%])

    Percentage of vote: 30.77%

  2. No (9 votes [69.23%])

    Percentage of vote: 69.23%

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#1 *Anastasia

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Posted 08 November 2016 - 11:35 AM

The question is simple: Do you consider yourself a feminist?

 

'Feminism' seems to me one of the most divisive words in the English language. Its definitions, applications, cooptations, and reclamations (holy suffixes, Batman) are numerous and ongoing, and it seems difficult today to get two people together who fully agree on what the term means, or what it should mean.

 

For the sake of this poll, therefore, I'm intentionally leaving the definition of the word vague and open to your own interpretation. Based on how you, personally, define 'feminism,' do you consider yourself a feminist?

 

Votes are anonymous, as I recognize this may be a sensitive subject for some people, but if you're so inclined, feel free to share what the word means to you and how you relate to it.





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#2 He who posts

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Posted 08 November 2016 - 12:38 PM

He who posts doesn't see himself as a feminist, too many people dragging in their hobby projects claiming it is part of it.



#3 voidoid

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Posted 08 November 2016 - 12:45 PM

I don't know if there is a word for it (humanist is already taken), but my simplistic belief has always been if anyone has a right protected by law, then everyone has that protected right.  The only exception is that some rights can be removed by judicial due process for certain, serious felonies, e.g. treason.  You would think that the equal protection concept of US law would have settled all these disputes in my country, but it hasn't.

 

Feminist is too narrow.  Whatever you call what I described above includes and extends protection beyond gender issues.



#4 voidoid

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Posted 08 November 2016 - 05:58 PM

 

And voidoid likes Ana.  Best webmistress I know.



#5 *Anastasia

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Posted 08 November 2016 - 06:09 PM

I don't know if there is a word for it (humanist is already taken), but my simplistic belief has always been if anyone has a right protected by law, then everyone has that protected right.  The only exception is that some rights can be removed by judicial due process for certain, serious felonies, e.g. treason.  You would think that the equal protection concept of US law would have settled all these disputes in my country, but it hasn't.

 

Feminist is too narrow.  Whatever you call what I described above includes and extends protection beyond gender issues.

 

You… I like you.

 

This, in the broad sense, is my view as well. It seems only natural to me that all people should have the same protection of law and the same freedom from discrimination. Man, woman, gay, straight, white, black, trans, cis—what does it matter? People are people. Thing is, I feel most people agree with this in principle. Sure, a lot of people have specific hangups that introduce problems, but by and large, I don't feel people are bigots, or racists, or misogynists. Do those people exist? Of course, but they're not the majority, and with both education and exposure, I feel that most people can and will overcome the tribalist views that color our perceptions of one another—and I also feel the progressive arc of history bears this out.

 

Now, you struggle to find a term for this view, and I know many self-proclaimed feminists who would claim that 'feminism' is indeed the term for that view. But even if it wasn't also in frequent use, as Xoin alluded, for much narrower, much uglier ideologies, if that's truly what you want your brand to represent, why call it 'feminism' at all? Why apply a clearly gendered label to something you then spend a great deal of time trying to argue isn't really about gender? For this reason, it's a label I've neither liked nor identified with despite sharing the broadest goals of most self-identified feminists.

 

Of course, on the other end of the spectrum, I also don't believe there's a huge, misogynist societal conspiracy against women, either—the so-called 'patriarchy' against which modern feminists so vehemently rail. The mere existence of gender inequality in certain instances or measured by certain metrics does not necessitate the existence of widespread institutional sexism. Nor do I feel traditional gender roles are inherently oppressive towards women, and it likewise seems only natural to me that women and men, being different, might naturally fill different societal roles. Should they be forced into those roles? Of course not. But I do feel that, taken as a whole, the existence of gender roles is beneficial to society, and to men and women alike.

 

So… yeah. Not a feminist, and not ashamed of not being a feminist, and not going to be shamed by the likes of my Prime Minister who like to imply that anyone who refuses to identify as a feminist is a sexist pig. But I'm also certainly not against feminism, at least in the broader senses of the term.

 

 

And voidoid likes Ana.  Best webmistress I know.

 

:wub:



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#6 KiWi

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Posted 08 November 2016 - 08:17 PM

egalitarian?

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#7 Redezra

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Posted 09 November 2016 - 10:18 AM

I am. Certainly.

 

I believe strongly in social egalitarianism. Barriers between races, sexes, genders, beliefs, etc, should all be deprecated. That isn't to say the differences should not be appreciated and respected, they most absolutely should, but I believe everyone should be able to choose to be or identify with whatever they want. That is their choice, their life, their freedom. I believe the rules of the world should not be tilted to support any group more than any other. I believe in equal pay for equal work as much as I believe in programs to support marginalised classes, the disabled, and any minority that is disenfranchised. I believe that social oppression is real and needs to end, but I believe it will end when we all come together, not by screaming and fighting and pushing everyone apart. I am against anybody who tells me what morals ought to be, or what the natural way of things are, or how anyone should identify. I find that repulsive, and usually insulting.

 

I also believe that most people don't understand what Feminism is. Feminism is the realization that the world has been made to force us into boxes of who we are and can be. It's called Feminism cause it started with the plight of women, but it just as easily translates to allowing men to show what are traditionally "feminine" traits, as it can be the deconstructing of all social constructs designed to fit people to a scripted identity. It is a great unwinding of the social heirachy that has been built by our ancestors in the knowledge that we are no longer feudal serfs, but metropolitan, modern humans. The name speaks to it's legacy, in that it began with the oppressed, and will end only when the last oppressed group is finally free to be themselves in a world that supports them.

 

I also think it's a massive pain in the ass when you try and get people to understand that it's a big ol chunk of civil rights movements and social progressive movements when you've got fucking nutjobs trying to twist it into some kind of weird androphobic thing. That's not fucking Feminism, that's Feminine Supremacy, and should be termed such. It's as bad for Feminism as White Supremacy is for the right wing political spectrum or Communism is for the left. A real straw man that people point to and it's really annoying having to constantly tell people "No honestly they don't share the same views as us but they keep stealing the fucking banner"



#8 Shokkou

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Posted 09 November 2016 - 01:37 PM

You can throw the dictionary definitions and history at people until you're blue in the face. It's a label, and not even a particularly helpful one anymore. Hell, I rarely if ever even identify myself as a libertarian nowadays. Not because they're not closest to what I believe, but because labels just become a lazy way of cutting corners in a discussion. I spout off a word because it's easier than telling people what all I really believe. They interpret it whatever way they do because it's easier than asking for clarification and listening. So it is with feminism.



#9 KiWi

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Posted 09 November 2016 - 02:55 PM

Everything already said, and plenty more as a big asterisks.

I actually voted Yes.

Mulan is a great movie. Arguments about if a character is a boy or girl are among my absolute favorites. I have always fought against "you shouldn't hit girls". I believe Cheerleading to be stupid and not a real sport. I think women should weight lift. I hate bottle blondes.

Will add more to this list as I think of clear examples of -proper- feminism.

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#10 Blackatron

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Posted 02 December 2016 - 11:09 AM

It's a label, and not even a particularly helpful one anymore.

 

This, according to the feminist definition literally everyone is a feminist (okay not everyone, but the large majority of people) since no one really believes women deserve unfair treatment or fewer opportunities just for being female. The way that many non or anti-feminists see it no one needs to be a feminist, because women already have equal rights under the law, and already received fair treatment, and many would say that feminism is simply not a constructive ideology for dealing with many of the existing inequalities in society.

 

Furthermore it is quite easy to find two people who identify as feminists who share basically 0 beliefs, it is that diverse an "ideology", likewise you can easily find feminists and non-feminists who hold essentially all the same views regarding gender, and indeed non-feminists (such as myself) who often seem to act and speak in a more traditionally feminist way than many feminists.

 

TL:DR; at this point I feel the term feminist is useless, I used to consider myself "anti-feminist", but I then realised the term is used by such a diverse group of people that even to be "anti-feminist" doesn't mean anything.



#11 the rebel

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Posted 03 December 2016 - 09:38 AM

TL:DR; at this point I feel the term feminist is useless, I used to consider myself "anti-feminist", but I then realised the term is used by such a diverse group of people that even to be "anti-feminist" doesn't mean anything.


A feminist is just another word for a disgruntled woman these days.

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#12 Thrash

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Posted 04 December 2016 - 10:05 AM

Women deserve the same pay as men if they are doing the same job, no doubt about it. The problem with "feminism" is it's being abused, crying wolf, making a bad name for the women who just want to live their lives as equal to men as they are entitled to. This is another affect of the left, who want to blow things out of proportion, teach lies in school to try to get more voters to their side. It's not helping yourself or the people you claim to care about. The fantasy land of being able to indoctrinate everyone is over. It's time to start really sticking up for people instead of just claiming you do thinking it will get votes. That strategy lost. Start listening to people and doing shit for them and not worrying about yourself.



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