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Farewell, America


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#1 ᗅᗺᗷᗅ

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Posted 29 November 2016 - 01:49 PM

America died on Nov. 8, 2016, not with a bang or a whimper, but at its own hand via electoral suicide. We the people chose a man who has shredded our values, our morals, our compassion, our tolerance, our decency, our sense of common purpose, our very identity — all the things that, however tenuously, made a nation out of a country.

 

Whatever place we now live in is not the same place it was on Nov. 7. No matter how the rest of the world looked at us on Nov. 7, they will now look at us differently. We are likely to be a pariah country. And we are lost for it. As I surveyed the ruin of that country this gray Wednesday morning, I found weary consolation in W.H. Auden’s poem, September 1, 1939, which concludes:

 

“Defenseless under the night
Our world in stupor lies;
Yet, dotted everywhere,
Ironic points of light
Flash out wherever the Just
Exchange their messages:
May I, composed like them
Of Eros and of dust,
Beleaguered by the same
Negation and despair,
Show an affirming flame.”

 

I hunt for that affirming flame.

 

This generally has been called the “hate election” because everyone professed to hate both candidates. It turned out to be the hate election because, and let’s not mince words, of the hatefulness of the electorate. In the years to come, we will brace for the violence, the anger, the racism, the misogyny, the xenophobia, the nativism, the white sense of grievance that will undoubtedly be unleashed now that we have destroyed the values that have bound us.

 

We all knew these hatreds lurked under the thinnest veneer of civility. That civility finally is gone. In its absence, we may realize just how imperative that politesse was. It is the way we managed to coexist.

 

If there is a single sentence that characterizes the election, it is this: “He says the things I’m thinking.” That may be what is so terrifying. Who knew that so many tens of millions of white Americans were thinking unconscionable things about their fellow Americans? Who knew that tens of millions of white men felt so emasculated by women and challenged by minorities? Who knew that after years of seeming progress on race and gender, tens of millions of white Americans lived in seething resentment, waiting for a demagogue to arrive who would legitimize their worst selves and channel them into political power? Perhaps we had been living in a fool’s paradise. Now we aren’t.

 

This country has survived a civil war, two world wars, and a great depression. There are many who say we will survive this, too. Maybe we will, but we won’t survive unscathed. We know too much about each other to heal. No more can we pretend that we are exceptional or good or progressive or united. We are none of those things. Nor can we pretend that democracy works and that elections have more or less happy endings. Democracy only functions when its participants abide by certain conventions, certain codes of conduct and a respect for the process.

 

The virus that kills democracy is extremism because extremism disables those codes. Republicans have disrespected the process for decades. They have regarded any Democratic president as illegitimate. They have proudly boasted of preventing popularly elected Democrats from effecting policy and have asserted that only Republicans have the right to determine the nation’s course. They have worked tirelessly to make sure that the government cannot govern and to redefine the purpose of government as prevention rather than effectuation. In short, they haven’t believed in democracy for a long time, and the media never called them out on it.

 

Democracy can’t cope with extremism. Only violence and time can defeat it. The first is unacceptable, the second takes too long. Though Trump is an extremist, I have a feeling that he will be a very popular president and one likely to be re-elected by a substantial margin, no matter what he does or fails to do. That’s because ever since the days of Ronald Reagan, rhetoric has obviated action, speechifying has superseded governing.

 

Trump was absolutely correct when he bragged that he could shoot someone in the middle of Fifth Avenue and his supporters wouldn’t care. It was a dictator’s ugly vaunt, but one that recognized this election never was about policy or economics or the “right path/wrong path,” or even values. It was about venting. So long as Trump vented their grievances, his all-white supporters didn’t care about anything else. He is smart enough to know that won’t change in the presidency. In fact, it is only likely to intensify. White America, Trump’s America, just wants to hear its anger bellowed. This is one time when the Bully Pulpit will be literal.

 

The media can’t be let off the hook for enabling an authoritarian to get to the White House. Long before he considered a presidential run, he was a media creation — a regular in the gossip pages, a photo on magazine covers, the bankrupt (morally and otherwise) mogul who hired and fired on The Apprentice. When he ran, the media treated him not as a candidate, but as a celebrity, and so treated him differently from ordinary pols. The media gave him free publicity, trumpeted his shenanigans, blasted out his tweets, allowed him to phone in his interviews, fell into his traps and generally kowtowed until they suddenly discovered that this joke could actually become president.

 

Just as Trump has shredded our values, our nation and our democracy, he has shredded the media. In this, as in his politics, he is only the latest avatar of a process that began long before his candidacy. Just as the sainted Ronald Reagan created an unbridgeable chasm between rich and poor that the Republicans would later exploit against Democrats, conservatives delegitimized mainstream journalism so that they could fill the vacuum.

 

Retiring conservative talk show host Charlie Sykes complained that after years of bashing from the right wing, the mainstream media no longer could perform their function as reporters, observers, fact dispensers, and even truth tellers, and he said we needed them. Like Goebbels before them, conservatives understood that they had to create their own facts, their own truths, their own reality. They have done so, and in so doing effectively destroyed the very idea of objectivity. Trump can lie constantly only because white America has accepted an Orwellian sense of truth — the truth pulled inside out.

 

With Trump’s election, I think that the ideal of an objective, truthful journalism is dead, never to be revived. Like Nixon and Sarah Palin before him, Trump ran against the media, boomeranging off the public’s contempt for the press. He ran against what he regarded as media elitism and bias, and he ran on the idea that the press disdained working-class white America. Among the many now-widening divides in the country, this is a big one, the divide between the media and working-class whites, because it creates a Wild West of information – a media ecology in which nothing can be believed except what you already believe.

 

With the mainstream media so delegitimized — a delegitimization for which they bear a good deal of blame, not having had the courage to take on lies and expose false equivalencies — they have very little role to play going forward in our politics. I suspect most of them will surrender to Trumpism — if they were able to normalize Trump as a candidate, they will no doubt normalize him as president. Cable news may even welcome him as a continuous entertainment and ratings booster. And in any case, like Reagan, he is bulletproof. The media cannot touch him, even if they wanted to. Presumably, there will be some courageous guerillas in the mainstream press, a kind of Resistance, who will try to fact-check him. But there will be few of them, and they will be whistling in the wind. Trump, like all dictators, is his own truth.

 

What’s more, Trump already has promised to take his war on the press into courtrooms and the halls of Congress. He wants to loosen libel protections, and he has threatened Washington Post owner Jeff Bezos of Amazon with an antitrust suit. Individual journalists have reason to fear him as well. He has already singled out NBC’s Katy Tur, perhaps the best of the television reporters, so that she needed the Secret Service to escort her from one of his rallies. Jewish journalists who have criticized Trump have been subjected to vicious anti-Semitism and intimidation from the alt-right. For the press, this is likely to be the new normal in an America in which white supremacists, neo-Nazi militias, racists, sexists, homophobes and anti-Semites have been legitimized by a new president who “says what I’m thinking.” It will be open season.

 

This converts the media from reporters to targets, and they have little recourse. Still, if anyone points the way forward, it may be New York Times columnist David Brooks. Brooks is no paragon. He always had seemed to willfully neglect modern Republicanism’s incipient fascism (now no longer incipient), and he was an apologist for conservative self-enrichment and bigotry. But this campaign season, Brooks pretty much dispensed with politics. He seemed to have arrived at the conclusion that no good could possibly come of any of this and retreated into spirituality. What Brooks promoted were values of mutual respect, a bolder sense of civic engagement, an emphasis on community and neighborhood, and overall a belief in trickle-up decency rather than trickle-down economics. He is not hopeful, but he hasn’t lost all hope.

 

For those of us now languishing in despair, this may be a prescription for rejuvenation. We have lost the country, but by refocusing, we may have gained our own little patch of the world and, more granularly, our own family. For journalists, Brooks may show how political reporting, which, as I said, is likely to be irrelevant in the Trump age, might yield to a broader moral context in which one considers the effect that policy, strategy and governance have not only on our physical and economic well-being but also on our spiritual well-being. In a society that is likely to be fractious and odious, we need a national conversation on values. The media could help start it.

 

But the disempowered media may have one more role to fill: They must bear witness. Many years from now, future generations will need to know what happened to us and how it happened. They will need to know how disgruntled white Americans, full of self-righteous indignation, found a way to take back a country they felt they were entitled to and which they believed had been lost. They will need to know about the ugliness and evil that destroyed us as a nation after great men like Lincoln and Roosevelt guided us through previous crises and kept our values intact. They will need to know, and they will need a vigorous, engaged, moral media to tell them. They will also need us.

 

We are not living for ourselves anymore in this country. Now we are living for history.

 


 

By Neal Gabler. Reposted from www.billmoyers.com. This article perfectly captures the way I — and I suspect many others — feel about this election.





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#2 Molagbal

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Posted 29 November 2016 - 02:22 PM

I stopped caring about this election bs, its over come on.  From skimming your long essay you've used words like dictator or pariah state... yea right.  Trump isn't a dictator nor will we become a pariah state.  You mad about the outcome?  Do something about it and get involved.  If Trump fucks up he'll get impeached or the voters will reject him in four years, the world isn't gonna end so stop acting like it will.  All this doomsday talk is really getting old and annoying


Edited by Molagbal, 29 November 2016 - 02:41 PM.


#3 ᗅᗺᗷᗅ

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Posted 29 November 2016 - 04:40 PM

I stopped caring about this election bs, its over come on.  From skimming your long essay you've used words like dictator or pariah state... yea right.  Trump isn't a dictator nor will we become a pariah state.  You mad about the outcome?  Do something about it and get involved.  If Trump fucks up he'll get impeached or the voters will reject him in four years, the world isn't gonna end so stop acting like it will.  All this doomsday talk is really getting old and annoying

 

So in other words you're just commenting on what you assume it says. FYI: I didn't write it. If you'd read it you'd know that.



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#4 Manoka

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Posted 29 November 2016 - 04:59 PM

Yeah, Trump hasn't shredded our values yet. He's not even president. 

 

The argument that he's already destroyed this country is not only silly ,but it's also silly to think that he's going to shred our values or our country, or that it will become a pariah state or any of it. I know that this how many liberals are feeling because they can't handle losing and they've hyped themselves up to believe Trump is a racist, bigoted monster and all that, but it's just not based in reality. It's believing in your own hyperbolic reactions and exaggerations that you invented. 

 

 

Let's also not ignore that Hillary had a big part in this hate based election, making it all about character by attacking Trump's character rather than proposed policies. Her corruption and lack of values, being literally two-faced and saying every politician needs a public and a private face, is a part of the issue. To claim that it's only Trumps fault for the hate is laughable ,at best. 

 

The president is not a dictator, and he can't single handedly destroy America. America is not destroyed, and it likely won't be because of one man's, who's evils, while bad, are not anywhere near as bad as people have exaggerated. It's more self righteous hypocrisy and grandstanding when in reality Liberals these days are so detached it almost hurts to read shit like this because it seems like they actually believe it, even though they know they are lying to themselves. The facts don't matter because you put your fingers in your ears. America is not destroyed, and it won't be due to one democratic election. 

 

 

So, my response to people like those who wrote the article who want to spread fearmongering hate in the name of tolerance and compassion, is to go fuck yourself, or start listening rather than spouting out bullshit. 

 

Just take a moment and take things in.


Edited by Manoka, 29 November 2016 - 05:01 PM.


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#5 Thrash

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Posted 29 November 2016 - 05:01 PM

Remember when you had to admit you were wrong about him after the primaries? Guess what's coming for you a second time.



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#6 Thrash

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Posted 29 November 2016 - 05:04 PM

The facts don't matter because you put your fingers in your ears. 

 

This. Echo chamber.



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#7 Redezra

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Posted 29 November 2016 - 11:30 PM

But that's the problem guys, there are no facts. Not anymore. You wouldn't believe them if we had them, we wouldn't believe you if you did. We've all taken a step down a dark path where there is no trust, where minds are fortresses, barred and guarded.

 

The problem, much as Jorost will disagree with me, is not Trump. Heck it might not even be Mike Pence and his band of merry shits. The problem is that anti-intellectualism has won a huge victory. That this solopsist world view of "what I believe is true" has finally taken enough of a hold to start taking the wheel.

 

What's worrying is a future where nobody will listen. Where the truth is dead. Where there are no discussions, only violence, from any and all sides.

 

That will kill us all.



#8 Manoka

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Posted 30 November 2016 - 12:37 AM

But that's the problem guys, there are no facts. Not anymore. You wouldn't believe them if we had them, we wouldn't believe you if you did. We've all taken a step down a dark path where there is no trust, where minds are fortresses, barred and guarded.

 

The problem, much as Jorost will disagree with me, is not Trump. Heck it might not even be Mike Pence and his band of merry shits. The problem is that anti-intellectualism has won a huge victory. That this solopsist world view of "what I believe is true" has finally taken enough of a hold to start taking the wheel.

 

What's worrying is a future where nobody will listen. Where the truth is dead. Where there are no discussions, only violence, from any and all sides.

 

That will kill us all.

But can't you see your role in this?

 

The left's refusal to debate their arguments, succumb to facts or reality, or admit fault at almost any juncture is a huge issue. How many times have you just dismissed an argument because you disagreed with it, rather than try to argue your point, only to claim to be an intellectual who does not use intellect but insults and ad hominems to make their point? That "me being smarter than you!" is your only argument that ironically isn't true if you can't use logic and debate to actually argue a point?

 

 

It's the very mindset that your opponents are people to be talked down to rather than be talked to that has lead to the division. 

 

And until people can accept their part in it, things will never change. And I don't say this to be mean or to be rude, I say this in earnest. You need to recognize your own hypocrisy first. 



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#9 Thrash

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Posted 30 November 2016 - 07:12 AM

Wow, I actually liked a Manoka post. This is a first. There is a future.



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#10 the rebel

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Posted 30 November 2016 - 08:30 AM

Wow, I actually liked a Manoka post. This is a first. There is a future.


We have to book you in with a shrink first and foremost :P

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Posted 30 November 2016 - 04:04 PM

Red hit on the meat of it. It no longer matters if facts are on your side. No one cares. Hell, exit polls that a big chunk of Trump voters know he's full of shit and voted for him anyway. The sentence from the OP that really grabbed me was, "He says what I'm thinking." I think that's true. And I think it's chilling.

 

What really makes me sad is that there is basically no reason to even have these conversations any more. No one ever changes anyone's mind, and everyone just ends up angry. It's all well and good to talk about "coming together," but sometimes there are irreconcilable differences. How do you reach common ground when your positions are diametrically opposed?



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#12 Manoka

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Posted 30 November 2016 - 05:01 PM

Red hit on the meat of it. It no longer matters if facts are on your side. No one cares. Hell, exit polls that a big chunk of Trump voters know he's full of shit and voted for him anyway. The sentence from the OP that really grabbed me was, "He says what I'm thinking." I think that's true. And I think it's chilling.

 

What really makes me sad is that there is basically no reason to even have these conversations any more. No one ever changes anyone's mind, and everyone just ends up angry. It's all well and good to talk about "coming together," but sometimes there are irreconcilable differences. How do you reach common ground when your positions are diametrically opposed?

What needs to be done is a discussion of the facts. People believe things that just aren't true. You, for example. 

 

I imagine you actually think countries with the lowest homicide rates have the lowest gun ownership rates? Nope. Obama believed that the U.S. had the highest gun violence rate of any country in the world, and that mass shootings [1] didn't happen with the same kind of frequency in other countries. Or that other mass murders, such as mass stabbings or bombings, didn't replace them. 

 

 

The problem is that we need to be able to argue the facts without the "you hate children!" "are racist!" or even just "you're stupid!" if you don't agree with me. We need an actual discussion. But it will take your part to be willing to do it as much as everyone else. Giving up on the ability to have a rational discussion where you change your opinion when new facts are presented is a big part of the issue. And it will take your commitment as much as anyone. 

 

Now, I hate Trump. But Trump does change his mind when the facts present themselves. He's backpeddled on his ban on all muslim immigrants. He's decided to amend, not throw out Obamacare entirely. He plans on building a border wall, partially with a fence because it will be more effective in some places. So, he's willing to compromise and admit he's wrong. Fucking Donald Trump shows more humility than most liberals. That should shake you to your fucking CORE. So, are you? That, is the question.


Edited by Manoka, 30 November 2016 - 05:04 PM.


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#13 Redezra

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Posted 30 November 2016 - 08:52 PM


But that's the problem guys, there are no facts. Not anymore. You wouldn't believe them if we had them, we wouldn't believe you if you did. We've all taken a step down a dark path where there is no trust, where minds are fortresses, barred and guarded.

 

The problem, much as Jorost will disagree with me, is not Trump. Heck it might not even be Mike Pence and his band of merry shits. The problem is that anti-intellectualism has won a huge victory. That this solopsist world view of "what I believe is true" has finally taken enough of a hold to start taking the wheel.

 

What's worrying is a future where nobody will listen. Where the truth is dead. Where there are no discussions, only violence, from any and all sides.

 

That will kill us all.

But can't you see your role in this?

 

The left's refusal to debate their arguments, succumb to facts or reality, or admit fault at almost any juncture is a huge issue. How many times have you just dismissed an argument because you disagreed with it, rather than try to argue your point, only to claim to be an intellectual who does not use intellect but insults and ad hominems to make their point? That "me being smarter than you!" is your only argument that ironically isn't true if you can't use logic and debate to actually argue a point?

 

 

It's the very mindset that your opponents are people to be talked down to rather than be talked to that has lead to the division. 

 

And until people can accept their part in it, things will never change. And I don't say this to be mean or to be rude, I say this in earnest. You need to recognize your own hypocrisy first. 

 

Well here's the problem Manoka.

 

I know that an overwhelming majority of the time, you have no facts, and are making shit up. Others, say Thrash, or Rebel, likely believe I'm making shit up. What I'm talking about is the batshit world in which my words are worth as much as yours, regardless of who has reality on their side.

 

Regardless of who you believe, what we all know is that nobody wants to discuss anymore, even if we say that we should. The reason for that is that the concept of discussion has been infected with partisanship. Discussing is less a forum to drop facts and change views and is now a forum for overwhelming onlookers with data, true or otherwise.

 

Case in point, this post:

 


Red hit on the meat of it. It no longer matters if facts are on your side. No one cares. Hell, exit polls that a big chunk of Trump voters know he's full of shit and voted for him anyway. The sentence from the OP that really grabbed me was, "He says what I'm thinking." I think that's true. And I think it's chilling.

 

What really makes me sad is that there is basically no reason to even have these conversations any more. No one ever changes anyone's mind, and everyone just ends up angry. It's all well and good to talk about "coming together," but sometimes there are irreconcilable differences. How do you reach common ground when your positions are diametrically opposed?

What needs to be done is a discussion of the facts. People believe things that just aren't true. You, for example. 

 

I imagine you actually think countries with the lowest homicide rates have the lowest gun ownership rates? Nope. Obama believed that the U.S. had the highest gun violence rate of any country in the world, and that mass shootings [1] didn't happen with the same kind of frequency in other countries. Or that other mass murders, such as mass stabbings or bombings, didn't replace them. 

 

 

The problem is that we need to be able to argue the facts without the "you hate children!" "are racist!" or even just "you're stupid!" if you don't agree with me. We need an actual discussion. But it will take your part to be willing to do it as much as everyone else. Giving up on the ability to have a rational discussion where you change your opinion when new facts are presented is a big part of the issue. And it will take your commitment as much as anyone. 

 

Now, I hate Trump. But Trump does change his mind when the facts present themselves. He's backpeddled on his ban on all muslim immigrants. He's decided to amend, not throw out Obamacare entirely. He plans on building a border wall, partially with a fence because it will be more effective in some places. So, he's willing to compromise and admit he's wrong. Fucking Donald Trump shows more humility than most liberals. That should shake you to your fucking CORE. So, are you? That, is the question.

 

Regardless of how much you agree with this sentiment, where are the facts? Where are the references to real, tangible things? Can you trust those references? Can you trust the statements made without references? I don't care if you agree, do you trust that those references report truth and not just making shit up?

 

Importantly, how much of this is emotive? How much is designed to make those against the viewpoint espoused angry while making those with it happy? Is it designed to pull in undecided members of the community with that raw emotion? Why would you do that in an impartial discussion?

 

This is the problem we are facing in a nutshell. People don't want to hear what is real anymore. They want to hear what makes them happy.

Emotive text and memes indicate that social media can be controlled. Media represents gestalt thought. If media can be controlled, thoughts can be controlled. Keep that in mind.


Edited by Redezra, 30 November 2016 - 08:53 PM.


#14 Manoka

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Posted 30 November 2016 - 11:12 PM

 


But that's the problem guys, there are no facts. Not anymore. You wouldn't believe them if we had them, we wouldn't believe you if you did. We've all taken a step down a dark path where there is no trust, where minds are fortresses, barred and guarded.

 

The problem, much as Jorost will disagree with me, is not Trump. Heck it might not even be Mike Pence and his band of merry shits. The problem is that anti-intellectualism has won a huge victory. That this solopsist world view of "what I believe is true" has finally taken enough of a hold to start taking the wheel.

 

What's worrying is a future where nobody will listen. Where the truth is dead. Where there are no discussions, only violence, from any and all sides.

 

That will kill us all.

But can't you see your role in this?

 

The left's refusal to debate their arguments, succumb to facts or reality, or admit fault at almost any juncture is a huge issue. How many times have you just dismissed an argument because you disagreed with it, rather than try to argue your point, only to claim to be an intellectual who does not use intellect but insults and ad hominems to make their point? That "me being smarter than you!" is your only argument that ironically isn't true if you can't use logic and debate to actually argue a point?

 

 

It's the very mindset that your opponents are people to be talked down to rather than be talked to that has lead to the division. 

 

And until people can accept their part in it, things will never change. And I don't say this to be mean or to be rude, I say this in earnest. You need to recognize your own hypocrisy first. 

 

Well here's the problem Manoka.

 

I know that an overwhelming majority of the time, you have no facts, and are making shit up. Others, say Thrash, or Rebel, likely believe I'm making shit up. What I'm talking about is the batshit world in which my words are worth as much as yours, regardless of who has reality on their side.

 

Regardless of who you believe, what we all know is that nobody wants to discuss anymore, even if we say that we should. The reason for that is that the concept of discussion has been infected with partisanship. Discussing is less a forum to drop facts and change views and is now a forum for overwhelming onlookers with data, true or otherwise.

 

Case in point, this post:

 


Red hit on the meat of it. It no longer matters if facts are on your side. No one cares. Hell, exit polls that a big chunk of Trump voters know he's full of shit and voted for him anyway. The sentence from the OP that really grabbed me was, "He says what I'm thinking." I think that's true. And I think it's chilling.

 

What really makes me sad is that there is basically no reason to even have these conversations any more. No one ever changes anyone's mind, and everyone just ends up angry. It's all well and good to talk about "coming together," but sometimes there are irreconcilable differences. How do you reach common ground when your positions are diametrically opposed?

What needs to be done is a discussion of the facts. People believe things that just aren't true. You, for example. 

 

I imagine you actually think countries with the lowest homicide rates have the lowest gun ownership rates? Nope. Obama believed that the U.S. had the highest gun violence rate of any country in the world, and that mass shootings [1] didn't happen with the same kind of frequency in other countries. Or that other mass murders, such as mass stabbings or bombings, didn't replace them. 

 

 

The problem is that we need to be able to argue the facts without the "you hate children!" "are racist!" or even just "you're stupid!" if you don't agree with me. We need an actual discussion. But it will take your part to be willing to do it as much as everyone else. Giving up on the ability to have a rational discussion where you change your opinion when new facts are presented is a big part of the issue. And it will take your commitment as much as anyone. 

 

Now, I hate Trump. But Trump does change his mind when the facts present themselves. He's backpeddled on his ban on all muslim immigrants. He's decided to amend, not throw out Obamacare entirely. He plans on building a border wall, partially with a fence because it will be more effective in some places. So, he's willing to compromise and admit he's wrong. Fucking Donald Trump shows more humility than most liberals. That should shake you to your fucking CORE. So, are you? That, is the question.

 

Regardless of how much you agree with this sentiment, where are the facts? Where are the references to real, tangible things? Can you trust those references? Can you trust the statements made without references? I don't care if you agree, do you trust that those references report truth and not just making shit up?

 

Importantly, how much of this is emotive? How much is designed to make those against the viewpoint espoused angry while making those with it happy? Is it designed to pull in undecided members of the community with that raw emotion? Why would you do that in an impartial discussion?

 

This is the problem we are facing in a nutshell. People don't want to hear what is real anymore. They want to hear what makes them happy.

Emotive text and memes indicate that social media can be controlled. Media represents gestalt thought. If media can be controlled, thoughts can be controlled. Keep that in mind.

 

The information comes from the United Nations, so it's as accurate as it can be. Irregardless, as a benchline for a rough comparison or at least to show that the data doesn't show what's the case is here. Yet people regurgitate "facts" on how countries with low homicides have less guns on average, as if there's something to back this up. Or that assault weapons, responsible for 2% of murders, are somehow super deadly and dangerous. 

 

When you say you "know" I don't have facts backing my argument and are so dismissive before you've even tried to read or analyze it, that's exactly the problem you're stating. You obviously don't know, because you haven't look in to it. That kind of lazyness is a part of the problem, you're so grandiose and ready to attack anyone you don't like, so ready to determine what should happen to me and the entire country, yet you care so little that you can't even be bothered to check if your information is valid. If you really did care about people that's what you would do, make sure you are right given the gravity the decision you'll make will have. 

 

But that's not what it's about, it's about ego, to be able to pretend you're superior to everyone else. Somewhere along the way people like you got lost thinking you were doing the right thing but got lead astray. 



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#15 Manoka

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Posted 03 November 2017 - 10:25 PM

Funny that America is still alive. 

 

No concentration camps for mexicans and blacks so far.

 

It's almost like Trump is not the genocidal mad-man people say he'd be.

 

"Boo-hoo, my guy lost, the world is over D:"

 

 

Bunch of pansies.


Edited by Manoka, 03 November 2017 - 10:25 PM.


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#16 He who posts

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Posted 04 November 2017 - 09:57 AM

Funny that America is still alive.

No concentration camps for mexicans and blacks so far.

It's almost like Trump is not the genocidal mad-man people say he'd be.

"Boo-hoo, my guy lost, the world is over D:"


Bunch of pansies.

In October 2017, Price was strongly criticized for "suggesting that people with HIV might be quarantined to curb the spread of the infectious disease.
14COhR2h.jpg


Edited by He who posts, 04 November 2017 - 04:07 PM.


#17 Manoka

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Posted 04 November 2017 - 11:17 PM

Funny that America is still alive.

No concentration camps for mexicans and blacks so far.

It's almost like Trump is not the genocidal mad-man people say he'd be.

"Boo-hoo, my guy lost, the world is over D:"


Bunch of pansies.

In October 2017, Price was strongly criticized for "suggesting that people with HIV might be quarantined to curb the spread of the infectious disease.
14COhR2h.jpg

This is a reach if I've ever seen one. 

 

1. Not Trump, hasn't done it

 

2. Was about HIV, for quarantining, those with extremely infectious and deadly diseases, not about minorities, and not death camps. The logical reason for it would be to prevent millions of people from dying, which is a legitimate reason to put someone in quarantine, unless you believe people with like, Ebola and such should just be allowed to kill millions "because reasons". 

 

3. She was discussing the option, not explicitly endorsing it. 

 

 

""And I don’t want to say the quarantine word, but I guess I just said it. What would you advise or are there any methods legally that we could do?" - This the quote people are up in arms about, which is not as bad as "I want to put all people with HIV in concentration camps". If you don't understand the logic behind potentially quarantining people who are spreading disease, then this conversation won't go anywhere, but regardless she wasn't endorsing it. So 1. Wasn't Trump, 2. Wasn't minorities, 3. Person in question didn't even endorse, and would have a logical reason to endorse it if they did (especially for extreme cases). So, nice try I guess?



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#18 Shokkou

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Posted 06 November 2017 - 03:01 AM

FYI: I didn't write it. If you'd read it you'd know that.

 

This article perfectly captures the way I — and I suspect many others — feel about this election.


"I didn't write it, I just happen to agree with everything it says. Checkmate nerd." I see your intellectual honesty is as robust as it's ever been.
 
Seeing that this kind of masturbatory navel gazing is the only thing that gets this site a pulse would be amusing if it wasn't so tired and sad at this point.
 
P.S. I had something relevant to say written here, but I've had relevant things to say before and no one has ever learned anything. Pearls before swine and all that. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice. You ain't. You ain't gonna fool me a second time. Have this instead:
 
tpcmclK.jpg



#19 Manoka

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Posted 05 December 2018 - 05:18 AM

It seems America is still alive. No concentration camps for the gays, blacks and Mexicans, unless you think camps that feed them and give them free money are concentration camps. 

 

Did you think I forgot about this thread? Nope. I didn't. Muhuauhuahuauhua! 



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