16 replies to this topic

[ᗅᗺᗷᗅ]

For Star Trek geeks only. 

 

Simple question:  Who would win, the Dominion or the Borg?  I vote for the Dominion, and my reasoning is this:  We know from Star Trek: Voyager that the Borg can travel to any point in the galaxy in minutes, including the Gamma Quadrant.  The Dominion is the dominant power in the Gamma Quadrant.  Indeed, although DS9 never made it explicitly clear, it was implied that the Dominion might be the only power in the Gamma Quadrant.  Therefore it is impossible to believe that the Borg are not aware of them.  Given the Borg's pro-assimilation tendencies, it is safe to assume that they would be interested in incorporating the civilizations of the Gamma Quadrant into the Collective.  The fact that they had not done so suggests that the Dominion has some way of defeating them.

[Justavictim82]

I think we had the poll a while back of 'What Star Trek race would you be?' and I selected Founder. That hasn't changed

[Octavian]

Resistance is futile.

[ᗅᗺᗷᗅ]

I think we had the poll a while back of 'What Star Trek race would you be?' and I selected Founder. That hasn't changed

 

When I was looking for opinions about this online (yes, I'm that big a geek) I learned that the (only semi-canonical) post-DS9 novels have established that Founders cannot be assimilated.

[Justavictim82]

It would make sense. They are not solids. 

[ᗅᗺᗷᗅ]

True.  And since the Vorta and the Jem'Hadar are genetically engineered, it's possible that they, too, cannot be assimilated.  I could imagine the Dominion including something in their genetic code that was toxic to the Borg, like the virus Janeway used to destroy the transwarp hub in the last episode of VGR.

[Justavictim82]

True.  And since the Vorta and the Jem'Hadar are genetically engineered, it's possible that they, too, cannot be assimilated.  I could imagine the Dominion including something in their genetic code that was toxic to the Borg, like the virus Janeway used to destroy the transwarp hub in the last episode of VGR.

 

The thought process that Vorta and Jem'Hadar are toxic to the Borg is interesting but most likely impractical. As far as we know, the Borg do not have a heavy presence in the Gamma Quadrant or possibly even zero presence there... so why would those races be engineered against the unknown? 

[ᗅᗺᗷᗅ]

That's my point, they wouldn't be unknown.  They can travel easily to the Gamma Quadrant; there is no reason to believe they wouldn't be as interested in conquest there as they are everywhere else.  If they could have conquered it, they would have.  And the Founders are ancient, far older than the Borg, and paranoid about their physical safety.  They would never allow a potential threat to the Dominion such as the Borg to exist unmolested.

[Imperator]

I think the founders, through what they are, can mitigate the threat the Borg pose.

[Regent Pancras]

We know from Star Trek: Voyager that the Borg can travel to any point in the galaxy in minutes, including the Gamma Quadrant.

They *can*, but their existence isn't omnipotent (like Q) and everything they do therefore is subject to their raison d'être, which is 'achieving perfection'. This is done through assimilation - and while the changelings who ultimately rule the dominion probably could not be assimilated (in the same way Species 8472 couldn't) their subordinates - specifically the Jem'Hadar probably could be. Although in their organic form the J'H relied on Ketracel White as nourishment, it is naive to think that once assimilated former Jem'Hadar Borg drones would still require such sustenance, just as former human Borg drones don't require food. Vorta also could be assimilated - and without either the Vorta as the changelings’ lap dogs or the J'H as their foot soldiers, the changelings would be very vulnerable indeed.

 

However think of the Borg as a Roman Empire. In their day they could take on any race they encountered, but only if the ends justified the means. There is evidence that The Borg went after trophy prizes (Earth for example in ST:FC) but how much perfection could the Borg hope to gain from assimilating two races which were already heavily genetically modified? So the Borg didn't take on the Dominion because the prize didn't justify the commitment, time and effort involved in taking it on - which at a conservative estimate was 50,000 light years from Borg Space.

 

tl:dr - The Borg could kick The Dominion out of the ball park, but it wouldn't achieve anything towards their stated aim of 'achieving perfection', so why bother?

[ᗅᗺᗷᗅ]

If the Federation could defeat them, then it stands to reason that the Dominion could do so as well, inasmuch as the Dominion was generally portrayed as being slightly ahead of the Alpha Quadrant powers in technology.  Let's face it, if not for the intervention of the Prophets/Wormhole Aliens, the Dominion would have defeated the Federation/Klingon Alliance and all but taken over the Alpha Quadrant.

 

(Side question:  Where were the Ferengi during the Dominion War?  At one point Nog's brother Rom became Grand Nagus of the Ferengi Alliance, why didn't he join the war against the Dominion?)

 

Also, given the Founders' paranoid obsession with their own physical security, it is difficult to believe they would not consider the Borg a threat.  They considered the Federation a threat, and the Federation is a bunch of pussies.  The Jem'Hadar are disciplined and effective soldiers who have proven highly adaptable, and the Founders are a race of shapeshifters immune to assimilation.  And the Borg have been shown to possess many more flaws than the implacable horde from "The Best of Both Worlds."  Biotechnological attacks, such as the neurolytic pathogen unleashed by Admiral Janeway in the Voyager series finale, have proven to be particularly effective — the Founders are masters at biotechnology.  My money's on the Dominion.

 

Victory is life.

[Justavictim82]

(Side question:  Where were the Ferengi during the Dominion War?  At one point Nog's brother Rom became Grand Nagus of the Ferengi Alliance, why didn't he join the war against the Dominion?)

 

Most likely war profiteering. They are the Ferengi after all

[Regent Pancras]

(Side question:  Where were the Ferengi during the Dominion War?  At one point Nog's brother Rom became Grand Nagus of the Ferengi Alliance, why didn't he join the war against the Dominion?)

 

Most likely war profiteering. They are the Ferengi after all

Rule of Aquisition #34: War is good for business.

[Haflinger]

Yeah and while he's relatively decent for a Ferengi, I can't quite picture Rom as a great military leader or anything.

[ᗅᗺᗷᗅ]

But Rom was supposed to be a different kind of Ferengi.  Besides, don't forget Rule of Acquisition #35:

 

35. Peace is good for business.

 

I figured they would have done it just so they could bust out the Ferengi Marauder models to use for the spacefleet battle scenes.

[Imperator]

#76: Every once in a while, declare peace. It confuses the hell out of your enemies.

[Redezra]

Redezra opens the large book of Borg Canon...

 

Oookay, lets see here...

 

So it's been known for some time that the Borg's primary target at the moment is the species in the Alpha quadrant (as a result of Q Who), and as the middle of the galaxy is somehow a magic doom sphere apart from a certain movie, the Borg are following the path of least resistance. In entirely the other direction to the Dominion. So I'd say they don't know about the Dominion yet.

 

The Borg are also focusing a lot of attention on assimilating species in the way, and species 8472, who are also immune to assimilation. It is this "immunity" I wish to discuss.

 

In the primary timeline, post Romulan Catastrophe, and I refer you to the word-of-god canonical Star Trek Online storyline, the Borg rock up to assimilate the Alpha Quadrant, and again, seem to not be there when the Dominion show up again. These two seem to be decidedly good at avoiding eachother. However, the Borg succeed in assimilating species 8472, even if the "success" is experimental and only with a couple of specimens. What this demonstrates is that nothing is immune to the relentless will and sheer intellect of the Borg Hive.

 

Secondly, the Dominion, for all their might, and all their navies and superior strategies and etc etc etc... were beaten by the combined forces of the alpha quadrant. The Borg nearly annihilated the entire Federation fleet with a single cube. And then proceeded to almost completely obliterate the Federation itself with another. The Borg are not bogged down by standard tactics, are immensely powerful, have the most advanced drive and shielding technology of all major races, are capable of disabling multiple ships in seconds, and can only be taken down reliably by people with prior knowledge of Borg systems. Add to this their capacity to react and make themselves immune to any weapon, and all up, they are the most formidable force in the galaxy bar none.

 

So, assuming that the Borg ever met the Dominion, and decided that they were a priority, the Dominion is screwed. Their fleets are inferior to ones that are swept aside with impunity by single Borg ships, their tactics mean nothing to something that quite happily employs temporal plot hax and feeds itself on their enemies corpses, and the Founders are only temporarily immune to Borg assimilation.

 

In short: Resistance is Futile.