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#1 Wolfie

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Posted 24 January 2010 - 09:39 AM

i feel like this is going to start another debate :)

okay, well, long story short, i need to buy a car. by may or june at the absolute latest, but the sooner the better. $5000 is the most i can pay (I'm paying for this on my own, and make about $700 a month, and $1000+ once I'm sixteen)

Honestly, I'm just looking for something that isn't going to get me killed, and isn't expensive to insure and doesn't have like 300,000 miles on it. 4 wheel drive would be nice for where I live, but it isn't necessary.

ive had my eye on my friends 2000 jeep grand cherokee, 140,000 miles for $3000. or some model of volvo 240, those things are freaking tanks. my dad had one until the summer, when it finally got totaled.. while it was parked. D:

i'm also thinking of a 2001 saturn sc2. i found one with under 40,000 miles for $4900..

anybody have any recommendations for a car for a teenage girl? or just throw in your first/favorite car, whatever :P i've discovered a new love of cars, lmao.

edit: oh, and just keep in mind.. i'm a month away from 16, and make $7.85 an hour working at a library and $60 a weekend filling vending machines at a train station, and $10ish an hour at a coffee shop at the same train station.. i don't exactly have the highest income, and i'm paying for insurance as well as the car.



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#2 Timtacious

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Posted 24 January 2010 - 09:46 AM

YOU DONT EVEN HAVE A PERMIT! D:<

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#3 Wolfie

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Posted 24 January 2010 - 09:58 AM

getting my permit in a few weeks :)

i'm going to community college in the fall, and we only have one car (mom doesn't drive) and my dad absolutely refuses to let me drive his car. it's like, his baby..

besides, it's not like my parents are buying me a car lmao D:

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#4 Thrash

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Posted 24 January 2010 - 10:00 AM

$3000 is too much for a car with 140k on it. Steer away from that.

Should stay away from Saturn, too, as GM abandoned the Saturn line, so parts are going to get harder to find.

Even though I hate Honda, their cars are very reliable. A Honda with high mileage is still worth it.

My wife's Honda is 15 years old, and I've put maybe $1000 of work into it. My 8 year old Hyundai, I've put about $10,000 into.

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#5 Wolfie

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Posted 24 January 2010 - 01:48 PM

yeah, i told him i'd be really iffy about buying a car with that many miles on it. i love grand cherokees though..
i actually didn't know that, haha. that's really good to know. i just know that my parents had a saturn for a while when i was a kid and it seemed like a good car, and i saw that sc2 and i think i almost drooled. lmao.

hmm.. honda. except for the element, i don't think i've ever even ridden in a honda. i'll definitely look into them though, thanks a lot for the advice :)

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#6 ᗅᗺᗷᗅ

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Posted 24 January 2010 - 07:19 PM

Avoid the Volvos. Old Volvos will have a lot of problems, and they are expensive as hell to fix. In fact, avoid European makes altogether unless you want to pay an arm and a leg in repairs. At your price range any European car you could get is going to be full of problems.

I would also avoid the Jeep. The miles are on the high side, for sure, but that's not the main problem. That vehicle is a gasoline hog and Jeep Grand Cherokees are not known for their reliability or build quality.

Saturns are just junk. And like Thrash said, that company is now gone. Getting parts for it cannot be guaranteed.

My advice as a card-carrying car guy is to get a Japanese car. Honda or Toyota are the best. Nissan and Mazda aren't bad, but you have to be careful about Mazdas because a lot of them are just rebadged Fords. You might also consider a Hyundai, which is Korean. They have built a good reputation for reliability and their cars tend to be cheaper than the Japanese marques. I would avoid Kia, they haven't been around long enough, and Daewoo, which were just poor quality vehicles.

For $5000 you should be able to get a decent Honda Civic or Toyota Corolla. That's where I'd look.

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#7 acorn order 84

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Posted 24 January 2010 - 08:14 PM

I second jorost on Hyundai and Mazda,
they r reasonably cheap and pretty reliable,
and i like them too,
when i drive main car of ours i try and drive is our Mazda 3, its awesome i reckon,
and i dunno about the states, but over here u can get a lot of 2nd hand hyundai accents and excels for reasonably cheap, and they r pretty good cheap little cars imo.
We got an accent in early 2001 and its still going strong, with no real problems, apart from the cd player no longer working.

#8 Lord Tyr

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Posted 24 January 2010 - 08:19 PM

Your best bet is a Honda Accord, they last forever and the parts are cheap, also have great mpg and cheap to insure due to the sedan body style, however if you want something a little more sporty go with a Civic, i prefer civics more but accords are just as good too. If you want a car that will last and be a good deal then a honda is the way to go.

#9 m3g4tr0n

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Posted 24 January 2010 - 08:46 PM

I would suggest you find a Nissan Sentra. I've had two over the years, and they were great.

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#10 KingTopherXXIII

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Posted 24 January 2010 - 08:48 PM

Since I live in Michigan I would suggest something AMERICAN but that's just my opinion! I would go with a ford myself, never had too many problems with the ones I have had. Rangers seem to go forever!

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#11 ᗅᗺᗷᗅ

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Posted 24 January 2010 - 09:05 PM

Meh. I hate to say it, but most American cars are not of very high quality. There's a reason those companies went bankrupt, and despite all their whining and finger-pointing it boils down to one thing: they built an inferior product. Rangers are OK, I guess, but Toyota Tacomas are better. Besides, a Ford Ranger is hardly the kind of car that I picture a young girl driving!

That said, I will concede that Ford seems to have done the best of the big American automakers. And if the new small cars that they have coming, the Fiesta and the new Focus, are as good as the European press reports claim (they've been available there for a little while now), then my opinion might very well change. But in the $5K-range I would not recommend any American cars.

And, just for the record, every Honda Accord and Toyota Camry sold in this country is built in this country, by Americans. On the other hand, many so-called "American" cars are built in foreign countries. So an American nameplate is no guarantee that you are actually "buying American" or supporting American workers, if that is your goal.

But I have never been one to subscribe to the "be American, buy American" philosophy anyway. Frankly, the very notion is, well, un-American. We're supposed to be all about personal freedom, right? So I say "be American -- buy what you want."

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#12 VinceWsC

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Posted 24 January 2010 - 09:23 PM

Have you considered a VW Jetta? The only down side on a Jetta is that you will more than likely need to learn to drive a stick. Ford Probes aren't bad either, but you would be looking at 95-97ish.

#13 Thrash

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Posted 25 January 2010 - 08:59 AM

ahh, what I'd do to have a manual transmission once again..

but over here u can get a lot of 2nd hand hyundai accents and excels for reasonably cheap, and they r pretty good cheap little cars imo.


Excel's were first generation Hyundai's, they were pieces of crap. They stopped making those here in like 1988. Did they continue to make the Excel wherever you live? For awhile, I had the Mistubishi (yes, they made cars) version of the Excel called the Precis.

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#14 Invicta

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Posted 26 January 2010 - 02:03 AM

I really wish I'd seen this sooner; I'm a hard-core car guy. In college I had a huge stack of car magazines under my bed (which my friends referred to as "car porn"), and several subscriptions. I got Top Gear from the UK (best show ever!) and generally obsessed over cars I will never, ever get the chance to drive. I've even exchanged emails with the makers of cars such as the Ariel Atom before they became popular/expensive. What I'm trying to say is, I care too much.

That said, I have to agree with most of the advice here. Stay away from old Jeeps with a lot of miles, they don't last much over 150k in general and they aren't the cheapest things on earth to repair. Also, something to consider when cost is an issue is mpg, and sadly most older jeeps just don't have it in that regard.

Something to remember is the incredible value of a manual transmission. They are usually cheaper, they are easier to maintain as long as you go easy on the clutch (good technique is easy to learn, and saves you tons of money) and they get better gas mileage. Plus, they are more fun to drive and give you more control over the vehicle; very useful in dangerous situations if you know what you are doing.

Stay the hell away from Saturns for both reasons stated; they are cheap cars in every way (meaning you don't pay much for them but they don't last long) and the company is defunct. My Dad and I always called them the perfect American car; cheap, plastic, and disposable. :P On top of this they just aren't safe, and that's important for a first car.

I will disagree with Jor and say that, with careful research and a car inspection, you can do really well with a good european car, particularly Saab's or Volvo's, but also Volkswagon's. Some models are better than others, but Saab engines in particular will go forever. Most of the Saab owners I've known have finally junked the car because the body gave out. The engine was well over 300k miles and still running fine (assuming proper maintenance, such as regular oil changes). I've heard of Saab engines beating 500k miles before finally dying. You can't beat the Swedes for quality engineering, and the German's aren't far behind. The fact is, however, that Jor is right in that when things DO break European cars are much more expensive to repair. This is particularly true of english cars (stay away from any British car built before about 1990, especially if Lucas had anything to do with the electrical system). Also true of any euro sports car, particularly those built in Italy; just too danged expensive to repair.

Japanese cars are the ballance point, not the cheapest or the best built, but the best value for your average run-of-the-mill car. However, not all Jap cars are made equal. Toyota's are the most consistent, and you can't go wrong with a Camry; it's reliable, safe, and get's great mileage. Just a great car. I highly recommend a 6 cylindar Camry if you can find one; the older four bangers tend to be a little gutless, which is really my only complaint.

Honda's are reliable, but they tend to be uncomfortable and they can have poor handling characteristics. This is particularly true of the two door Accord's. I've hated every one I've driven (three I believe). They are painful to ride in for more than an hour or two (unusually so, for those smart-mouths who would say any car is painful after that long :)) and they don't have as good of a safety rating, mpg rating, or really anything else as the Camry's. If you ARE going to get an Accord test drive it, have it inspected, and for God's sake get a four door.

As a side note on Honda's, don't by a CRV. They aren't great for mileage, handling could be better, and as Car and Driver said so well they would have trouble towing a box of donuts on a level road, let alone a small trailer. Just don't go there.

The BEST Japanese car company available in my opinion is Subaru for a variety of reasons. First, they hold their value like crazy. This makes them expensive initially, but they are also still worth most of what you paid for it when you go to sell it (if you don't love it so much you drive it into the ground!). They are reliable, they are cheap to repair, they have great mileage, they are comfortable, they have well aranged interiors both for passengers and for cargo. Best of all is the drive train. First of all, the engines are the best maid four cylinders around; they are flat-fours, what Subaru calls a "boxer" engine. This design is used in most general aviation aircraft and provides a lot of torque without sacrificing acceleration. You don't get as much in the high-end usually but I'm assuming you aren't looking for a street-racer. :) If you are, Subaru's can be modified like crazy, they are sick tuners. The other great thing about the drive train in a Subaru is that they are ALL "all wheel drive". This is important. They are not 4-Wheel Drive, they are ALL Wheel Drive. All Wheel Drive is a much, much better system, like infinitely so, but I won't go into details here. If you want a reliable all-wheel-drive car that is cheap to maintain, get's good mileage, and is safe you can't go wrong.

Best piece of advice I can give you is that you should do your research! Consumer reports is a great option and definitely worth the subscription fee, you get a wealth of useful information that is well organized and easy to understand.

Also, don't fall for that car that is so cheap you can't believe it. It's easy to buy into a lemon, or a car with high maintenance costs, frequently needed maintenance, or a poor mpg rating. Better to pay a little more and get a reliable car with good mileage.

Finally, safety is extremely important for a first car so keep an eye on that. Sorry this is so long winded and disorganized! It's late and this is all off the top of my head so bear that in mind. I am more than happy to take on specific questions. :) Oh, and have fun! Cars are awesome.

#15 acorn order 84

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Posted 26 January 2010 - 03:50 AM

ahh, what I'd do to have a manual transmission once again..

but over here u can get a lot of 2nd hand hyundai accents and excels for reasonably cheap, and they r pretty good cheap little cars imo.


Excel's were first generation Hyundai's, they were pieces of crap. They stopped making those here in like 1988. Did they continue to make the Excel wherever you live? For awhile, I had the Mistubishi (yes, they made cars) version of the Excel called the Precis.

i dont believe they make them any more, but i believe they made them up till the late 90's when accents replaced excels.
Excels are very popular second hand cars around here, and they still seem to be going strong 10 years 'ish after they stopped making them.

btw, manual ftw as well, auto's suck lol, :)

#16 m3g4tr0n

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Posted 26 January 2010 - 08:30 AM

[quote="danielches

btw, manual ftw as well, auto's suck lol,
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#17 Wolfie

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Posted 26 January 2010 - 10:08 AM

thanks a lot for the replies everyone, especially glen and jorost. the more information, the better :P i'm a 15 year old girl, i don't know much about cars Dx

Trust me, i know how expensive volvos are to repair and how often the older ones break down. like i said, my dad drove a volvo 240 for 10 years.. awesome car, we got tboned at an intersection when i was a kid and we got hit on the side i was sitting in. i got seatbelt burn, lmao, and we just had to replace the door. the other car was totaled. as it got older though, it seemed like every three or four weeks it had to go to the shop. :/ and our 'new' (to us anyway) volvo v70's transmission just died with under 90,000 miles on it. $3000 repair and we haven't even had the damn thing for 6 months.

I was actually looking into hondas after thrash mentioned them, and they definitely seem like something i can afford, and by the sounds of it theyre reliable :)

i've looked into subarus as well, but by the looks of it the only thing i'd be able to afford would be a 10+ year old outback (which i've always had an inexplicable dislike to) with a gazillion miles. of course, if they're as reliable as they've been made out to be, maybe 100,000 miles isn't as bad as it sounds.

fuel economy is pretty important for me, considering gas was $3.35+ a gallon where i live last time i drove by a gas station. honestly though, if i had to chose, i'd obviously rather be in something that gets 20mpg and is a tank than a smartcar.. lol. i don't even want to imagine getting in an accident in one of those.

i'm in no way in love with the idea of buying an 'american' car.. i'd actually rather avoid it if i can. from what i've heard, they're mostly not worth it.

glen, i'm gonna go google the difference between four wheel and all wheel right after i post this. i'm intrigued now haha. and considering i live in the hudson valley, on top of a huge hill, with no way to get to my house without going up at last one hill and i live in new york, it's probably something i should know about. thanks for mentioning it :) i never knew there was a difference tbh.. fail.

this is one of those times i love being on a forum where 98% of the members are men. (stereotype, oh well :))

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#18 ᗅᗺᗷᗅ

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Posted 26 January 2010 - 10:41 AM

The difference between 4-wheel drive (4WD) and all-wheel drive (AWD) is simple. In 4WD, all four wheels turn at the same rate, no matter what. This can be dangerous in taking corners on dry roads. Under normal circumstances when you make a turn, the wheels on the side of the car on the INSIDE of the turn are rotating less quickly than the ones on the side of the car on the OUTSIDE of the turn. If you think about it, this makes perfect sense; the side of the car on the outside of the turn has farther to travel. However, when locked in 4WD all four wheels must turn at the same rate, meaning that the vehicle is in danger of flipping when taking a dry corner too fast. That's why pickup trucks and other 4x4s have those warning labels on the sun visor about not engaging 4WD drive on dry roads.

AWD is different. The wheels on an AWD vehicle can rotate at different speeds relative to one another. In fact, most AWD vehicles remain in 2-wheel drive (usually the front wheels) most of the time, and only apply power to the other wheels when they sense a loss of traction. In those AWD vehicles that can be "locked" into all-wheel drive, the power split is usually 50/50 front to rear. Because the wheels are able to rotate independently, AWD vehicles are safe to be driven in all conditions. (However, if you have an all-wheel drive vehicle in which the AWD can be switched off, you are better off doing so on dry roads in order to save gas.) AWD systems are far less heavy-duty than 4WD systems, however, which is why AWD vehicles are not good for serious off-roading.

Subarus are excellent cars, but because they have become such a popular "marquee" name with the Earthy-crunchy-yuppie set their prices tend to stay high. Ironically, not so many years ago, before the "Outback" brand was attached to them, they tended to not hold their value and were great bargains as used cars. But no more!

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#19 Kn1nJa

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Posted 26 January 2010 - 01:48 PM

I was going to post a bunch of my opinions and stuff, but TBH .... I'll just say ditto to what Sir Glen said. Also, before you think of buying a specific car, maybe you could post it on here for us to break apart and criticize.

Just in case you were curious ... I drive a 1997 Pontiac Bonneville with 180 some thousand miles on it. Sure it needs some work, and has a lot of miles on it, but I <3 that car. The GM 3800 series motor is one of the most reliable engines I have ever driven. Oh yeah ... and I bought my car for $900 (good deal considering all the problems it had). Sure, GM discontinued the pontiac line, but I am in no way worried about finding parts. I get all my parts at junkyards and auto parts stores, so there will be no shortage of parts any time soon (aftermarket parts manufacturers don't just stop making parts just because a certain car isnt made any more...)

Alas ... I rambled on longer than I thought I would. Anyway, please make sure you drive a car before thinking of buying it. Don't just settle for a car that might seem like a great deal. Remember, you will probably be driving that car for a while and once you buy it you are kind of stuck with it. Also, like I mentioned before, if you could post your possible purchase on here before deciding so we can rip it to pieces and comment on it.

Good luck car hunting!

#20 Invicta

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Posted 27 January 2010 - 12:08 AM

Wolfie, thanks for the support, and you're more than welcome for the advice. I love talking about cars :). What I say here may not end up being useful, but at least it's fun.

Jor, you actually missed the most important distinction between AWD and 4WD. Which is the setup of the differential.

The standard 4x4 uses a front-rear differential in which only one set of wheels is directly driven while the other is run inderectly through a center differential. Further, the axels are often split with differentials being used to connect the two front wheels or two rear wheels together. These differentials prevent some of the stress Jor was talking about above, though they don't succeed as they should because they are relatively simple purely mechanical systems. Because of the way power is applied to a car's tires in 4WD if one tire loses traction the majority (or all, depending on the circumstances) of the power (torque) ends up being applied to that tire due to the lack of resistance. So, say, you go partway into a ditch and one tire is completely off the ground, that tire will spin while the other tires stay still and you won't go anywhere.

AWD cars have a completely different setup for their differentials. Instead of the simple mechanicacal differentials used by 4x4s they use a much more complex computer controlled system to dynamically control the torgue applied to each wheel indipendantly, thus allowing the car to maintain traction. Think of it as 4 wheel traction control; the result is that you don't have to worry about being stuck in a situation like the one stated above.

Also wolfie, in case you checked it out on Wikipedia, the information isn't great there. Contrary to the indication on the Wikipedia article NO modern 4x4 operates without a differential. It just wouldn't work well enough for modern needs. The information on Wikipedia is unfortunately simplified and a somewhat inacurate representation of the way these systems work. Also, there is a difference between the technical definition of AWD and the way AWD systems are applied to commercial consumer cars. What I described is how they actually work on current cars, however this may be a slight departure from the technical definitions of the terms found in places like Wikipedia. As always, do your research into specific models with features like these to find out how they work in those cars.

The fact of the matter is that a 4WD car is really a 2WD car with the other two tires being driven off the axcel of the two drive wheels. They're just along for the ride. In some cheaper 2WD cars the same is true, where only ONE wheel is driven and the other is connected via a differential and is only powered indirectly, so it's really essentially 1 wheel drive. Only AWD cars are truly four wheel drive, in that all four wheels are independantly controlled.

Though as Jor says this can have an adverse affect on MPG ratings, this is less true of newer AWD systems, and it has been proven that the increased traction gained from AWD systems makes them much safer than standard 2WD cars.

As a final note, the more I think about your situation the more I think you should have a Toyota Camry. It doesn't have four wheel drive, but it has everything else you are looking for in a relatively affordable package. IMO it's a noticeable upgrade from the Honda Civic. I recommend the 6 cylinder version, and of course a manual tranny if you can find it, but all versions of the Camry are good. At the very least you should test drive one before buying a different car, to make sure you don't like it.

Also, always have the car inspected before you buy it. :P


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