22 replies to this topic

[Chancellor Gunn]

I'm taking a class where we are seeing some interesting issues in American government and politics so I thought I'd post a topic for each issue to see where people stand. I'm posting them after I've already completed my work for it so you don't have to worry about "helping me"

[Chancellor Gunn]

Also, for those of you who doesn't know what "American Exceptionalism" means, Wikipedia: American Exceptionalism

[Redezra]

I call it American arrogance. And it's all a bunch of navel gazing wank.

[ᗅᗺᗷᗅ]

No.  The United States is a great nation by virtue of a number of factors, but some inherent uniqueness of the American "spirit" is not one of them.  All countries think they're special.

[Chancellor Gunn]

No.  The United States is a great nation by virtue of a number of factors, but some inherent uniqueness of the American "spirit" is not one of them.  All countries think they're special.

The United States was special at its founding, and arguably continued to be special, or exceptional, for a while. That has definitely faded off now. I mean we're still special, but so is everyone, but we're not exceptional.

[KiWi]

I'm exceptional.

I am America.

Ergo(rence), America is exceptional.

And so can you.

Incoming freedom.

[King Biscuit]

I'm exceptional.

I am America.

Ergo(rence), America is exceptional.

And so can you.

Incoming freedom.

[ᗅᗺᗷᗅ]

The United States was special at its founding

 

Nah, that's just part of the myth.  It was just a bunch of rich white guys who didn't want to pay their taxes.

[KiWi]

America was exceptional, but not in any divine way.

America was just another leg in the history of mankind.

America is nothing but the collection of millions of individual actors, who are all born into a world, without their consent, to inherit their very life, culture, wealth, ideals, their place in their universe, because of the probability of their genetic line, and the catalyst of their society.

Each person is their own person, with their own self contained selves. They are placed into a situation, and act based on all their inputs.

Are you proud, of being an American?

Are you proud, of being human?

Are you proud, of existing?

American Exceptionalism exists if you believe it exists.

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P.S. I had written this out another way, but messed with the poll, and the page ate my post.

Disclosure, I voted for "yes", but honestly the question is kinda stupid. I don't like the following parts; "Should Americans Believe in a Unique American "Mission"?"

What are your views on cosmopolitanism?

[Redezra]

Unique American mission? Wat?

[Manoka]

I believe in American Exceptionalism but I don't believe that our mission is really that unique over any other country. 

[Imperator]

Unique American mission? Wat?

Manifest destiny.

[Redezra]

.-.

 

Well in that case I disagree.

[ᗅᗺᗷᗅ]

The notion of American exceptionalism is rooted deep within our national consciousness.  It probably started with the Puritans, who our history (read: propaganda) records as having come to the New World in search of religious freedom.  The truth, as is often the case, is a little more ambiguous.  Yes, the Puritans were seeking religious freedom, but it was the freedom to be rigid, repressive asshats.  Look at it this way:  17th century England was a pretty authoritarian place by our standards, and the Puritans were too uptight even for them.  And like many religious zealots, they believed God was on their side and that they were the "chosen people."

 

This idea directly translated into the concept of manifest destiny — that it was the white man's destiny, in other words, to conquer the entire continent, from sea to shining sea.  But it also found form in the more generalized form of American exceptionalism, the idea that our country is somehow special and different from other countries.  As I said, all countries feel that way.  It's human nature.  But Americans take it to extremes.  And for the past hundred years or so we've had the political, economic, and military clout to back it up.  Winning two world wars sure didn't do anything for our humility!

 

[Redezra]

Being a child of the Internet in a non xenophobic-nationalist country, I find it very hard to identify with countries. Rather, I identify as a member of the Western nations, and an honorary member of the Japan & Progressive South-East-Asian region.

[KiWi]

Being a child of the Internet in a non xenophobic-nationalist country, I find it very hard to identify with countries. Rather, I identify as a member of the Western nations, and an honorary member of the Japan & Progressive South-East-Asian region.

[Imperator]

Australia does have elements of xenophobia, just look at the media frenzy about "boat people".

 

I find that I do identify with my country, but only in the sense of being born there, which isn't exceptional nor special. So a very weak sense of national identity. I more identify with Oceania or SE Asia while also identifying as a person from a "Western" nation.

Edited by Imperator, 28 May 2014 - 05:24 AM.

[Redezra]

Oh I know Australia has xenophobic subcultures, but it's not a pervasive undertone.

[ᗅᗺᗷᗅ]

Ehh...  Like it or not, Red, Australia has a pretty well known reputation for racism.  Personally I can only speak to my own experiences, having known around a dozen or so Aussies well enough to discuss such things.  From what I have seen Australian racism is not as ugly and violent as American racism; it's more subtle than that, but it's there.  The writer Bill Bryson lived in Australia for many years and talks about this at length (albeit in a mostly lighthearted manner) in his memoir, In A Sunburned Country.

 

[Redezra]

I still refuse to believe what you call racism actually is racism. We aren't using it as a weapon to beat down classes. We're like that group of friends that are comfortable with eachothers differences enough to call members "the cripple" and "the idiot (or drongo in our case)" and so on. And you're all acting like the British, upper class people going "Oh we would never say that, oh my.". We don't care, we're fine with it, and we couldn't give two shits if you don't understand.

 

Of course... there is one problem with my oft repeated assessment and regular incendiary fury whenever someone goes about mentioning this.

 

I'm not lower class, and I'm not even middle class, and I don't live or work anywhere near the less savory parts of my city. So I have literally no idea how they go about doing things, and although I like to believe they're like me (I mean, who doesn't make that assumption) there's no way of me knowing. =/