71 replies to this topic

[KiWi]

 
Oh, this has been sitting in my Photobucket since my days of being an IAA ambassador to Vanguard. The opportunity was just too good to pass up, especially since I don't think most people here will have any idea who the picture is referring to. xD
 

I know both..

[Shokkou]

You know who Wraith is?

[Haflinger]

The correct English usage is "by accident." "On accident" is American colloquial slang, and is not usually correct.

Anything which the person you are speaking to understands is correct usage. The purpose of language is communication, if the meaning makes it across then the purpose has been fulfilled.

 

It's like how it doesn't matter if I spell a word "colour" or "color." You - and I - will know what is meant either way.

[Redezra]

Unless you're a syntax whore.

 

Being a computer scientist, I sort of am. So by accident is more correct, even though both technically work.

[*Anastasia]

The correct English usage is "by accident." "On accident" is American colloquial slang, and is not usually correct.

Anything which the person you are speaking to understands is correct usage. The purpose of language is communication, if the meaning makes it across then the purpose has been fulfilled.
 
It's like how it doesn't matter if I spell a word "colour" or "color." You - and I - will know what is meant either way.
 

Yeah, but one will look ugly and accentuate your Commonwealthness, and then someone'll make a joke about the Canadian healthcare system feeding you lumberjack cock.

[Scipio Africanus]

You know who Wraith is?

Yes

[Shokkou]

*pulls out the chloroform rag*

 

Shhhhhhhhhhh...

[ᗅᗺᗷᗅ]

Haf, there is being understood and there is correct grammatical usage; they are not the same thing. I agree that a lot of the things we say and are widely understood would be considered "correct usage" in conversation, in which the goal is simply to be understood. But many times those forms are not technically correct. This pleases the pedant in me enormously.

 

It is not entirely clear how American spelling came to be different from that of Britain and other Commonwealth countries. Webster, he of the dictionary fame, is widely credited as being responsible, but his famous lexicon only recorded the forms already in common everyday usage. In other words, our spelling was different before Webster. Likely it has to do with the age of our colonization. North America first began being settled in the 1500s; by the 1600s there were several well-established colonies. At that time English spelling and usage had not been standardized. Indeed, even in Shakespeare's time (late 1500s to early 1600s) it was not uncommon for the same word to be spelled differently in the same document. Over time, certain spellings and usages became more commonplace, and eventually standardized. Since North America was far from England, our standards evolved a little differently from theirs. Our slang as well — that's why Americans have trucks and Brits have lorries. Most of the rest of the Anglosphere (i.e. Canada, Australia, etc.) was not heavily populated until the 19th century, by which time formal grammatical rules had been established and spellings standardized. That's why Australians still say "colour" and "labour."

 

Like many emo teenagers, I went through a phase of spelling things the British way in high school.

[*Anastasia]

That's why Australians still say "colour" and "labour."

Fun fact: the major center-left Australian political party is called the Labor Party, not the Labour Party. The prominent labor leader King O'Malley was American-born and advocated modernizing the spelling of the party's name.

[Redezra]

All it means is that we know exactly what you're talking about when you say Labor vs Labour. Labor is a Proper Noun

[Haflinger]

Unless you're a syntax whore.

 

Being a computer scientist, I sort of am. So by accident is more correct, even though both technically work.

The reason why syntax matters so much to computers is because they're ridiculously stupid.

 

However computer syntax is also completely arbitrary and fixed, which makes it quite unlike linguistic syntax. The two really only have a surface resemblance.

 

Although I suppose I'm not a computer scientist, but rather a hacker. Computer scientists are people who talk about computer programs, hackers are people who actually make them.

[Redezra]

False~

 

We invent the things you use. We are the masters of the internet

Edited by Redezra, 11 November 2014 - 11:06 PM.

[ᗅᗺᗷᗅ]

There are rules for spoken languages just as there are rules for computer languages. It's just that in spoken languages there is more room for error, and most people don't follow the rules, at least in casual conversation. But if you tried to submit a college term paper, for example, and used bad syntax it would reflect poorly on your grade.

[Haflinger]

False~

 

We invent the things you use. We are the masters of the internet

Ever code in C?

 

If yes, you know you're wrong. C was made by hackers.

[Redezra]

False~

 

We invent the things you use. We are the masters of the internet

Ever code in C?

 

If yes, you know you're wrong. C was made by hackers.

 

Of course I code in C. It's the closest thing to Assembly without fork applied directly to brain.

 

But see, we invent algorithms. We invented computers. We invented networks, from how they are built to the network stacks that operate them. We invented every little thing you take for granted when you write your little C program, least of all the way compilers work.

 

We don't forget that without the legions of programmers, hackers, entrepreneurs and internet visionaries, the world would be a very boring place with regards to computers. All adding numbers together, or simulating weather. But don't ever forget that you would be nothing without us~

Edited by Redezra, 14 November 2014 - 06:38 AM.

[Haflinger]

Hackers invented algorithms. Computer scientists named them.

 

Computers themselves were designed by engineers, who are neither.

 

Networks again are mostly engineers. However TCP/IP was written by hackers. If computer scientists were responsible for networking, we'd all be on Bitnet now.

[Redezra]

Hackers invented algorithms. Computer scientists named them.

 

Computers themselves were designed by engineers, who are neither.

 

Networks again are mostly engineers. However TCP/IP was written by hackers. If computer scientists were responsible for networking, we'd all be on Bitnet now.

 

Edit: Hooold up, we're derailing this.

 

If you want to continue a "Hackers aren't Comp Sci people (even though Comp Sci's are hackers by definition)" argument... new thread?

Edited by Redezra, 14 November 2014 - 09:24 PM.

[Haflinger]

lol whatever

 

I suspect the only reason this thread has lasted as long as it has is because of our little discussion. I mean there's only so much you can get out of the basic "what is proper English" topic especially when there are no linguists on the board.

[Shokkou]

Saying you "accidentally" did something is the only correct way. Saying you did something "on" accident or "by" accident is incorrect. The accident is not a person, place, or thing. You could neither have been on it nor by it when you did whatever you did.

 

Congratulations. You've just made me go full Grammar Nazi.

[*Anastasia]

Saying you "accidentally" did something is the only correct way. Saying you did something "on" accident or "by" accident is incorrect. The accident is not a person, place, or thing. You could neither have been on it nor by it when you did whatever you did.
 
Congratulations. You've just made me go full Grammar Nazi.

You don't sleep in a bed, either, you sleep on a bed. Are you going to try to tell me that the phrase, 'I'm in bed,' is grammatically incorrect?

And for what it's worth, 'by' doesn't have to indicate position. Your homework must be done by the due date. By can be an indicator of the cause of something, or to place responsibility for some event or action. 'Jane was hit by the truck,' might (incidentally) indicate the truck through position, but, 'Jane was put in the hospital by the truck,' indicates not that the hospital is adjacent to a truck, but that the truck which hit her was the cause of her hospitalization. Similarly, an accident can be that cause—so that morning, Jane put salt in her coffee by accident. An 'accident' was the cause of her putting salt in her coffee, as indicated by the word 'by' (and in this sentence, 'by' indicated that 'the word "by"' was the cause of the accident being indicated ).

Grammatik macht frei.

Edited by Anastasia, 16 November 2014 - 02:35 PM.