71 replies to this topic

[He who posts]

See title

[ᗅᗺᗷᗅ]

As long as you weren't born in Canada.

Oh, wait, apparently even then. Never mind. 

[He who posts]

As long as you weren't born in Canada.
Oh, wait, apparently even then. Never mind. 

I have never left western Europe. I have been to the far east if West Germany counts.

[ᗅᗺᗷᗅ]

Heh. I'm pretty sure you can just say "Germany" now. Somewhere I still have the ID band they made me wear during a day trip into East Germany as a kid. That was weird.

 

And sadly, no, you have to be a native-born American (or Canadian) to run for US president.

[*Anastasia]

Heh. I'm pretty sure you can just say "Germany" now. Somewhere I still have the ID band they made me wear during a day trip into East Germany as a kid. That was weird.
 
And sadly, no, you have to be a native-born American (or Canadian) to run for US president.

If my nonexistent degree in US Constitutional Law serves me correctly, Xoin could very well run for President as long as he was born with US citizenship (for example, if a parent was a citizen), which is what qualifies Cruz and McCain, despite neither being born in the US.

That said I'm pretty sure Xoin's under 35. Ageism, ho!

[He who posts]

Heh. I'm pretty sure you can just say "Germany" now. Somewhere I still have the ID band they made me wear during a day trip into East Germany as a kid. That was weird.
 
And sadly, no, you have to be a native-born American (or Canadian) to run for US president.

If my nonexistent degree in US Constitutional Law serves me correctly, Xoin could very well run for President as long as he was born with US citizenship (for example, if a parent was a citizen), which is what qualifies Cruz and McCain, despite neither being born in the US.

That said I'm pretty sure Xoin's under 35. Ageism, ho!

  10 more years then.

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Normally I would agree with you — anyone born to a citizen is a "natural born" citizen regardless of where that birth actually occurred. However, since it hassles Ted Cruz, a man I actively detest, I am perfectly comfortable being more nit-picky. Donald Trump is quite correct when he states that the matter has not been officially settled, although the overwhelming majority of experts concur that it would be settled in Cruz's favor. Yet there are some special circumstances. The term "natural born" has never been defined, for example. And while John Mccain was born outside of the US proper, he was born on US territory, since the Panama Canal Zone (where he was born) was under US jurisdiction at the time. Mccain also had two American parents, and never had any passport but a American one. One of Cruz's parents was not American (his father was a Cuban immigrant to Canada) and he carried dual citizenship until just a few years ago when he renounced the Canadian side. These issues make the matter just a little murkier, and give Trump the wiggle room to make his birther attacks. Which I think is just fantastic.

[KiWi]

Fuck that guy.]

Also anyone want to correct me when I say Anyone *can* run for President, but you can't be elected. So a 25 year old from the Netherlands, with no ties to America could very well run (even get SUPERPAC money?!?) even get votes (even if they're not officially on the ballot). However those votes would just not be counted. It's like if 51% of the American voting public voted for Kermit the Frog. Those votes are simply not counted, and the remaining votes determine the winner.

So you can *run* even get votes, but you can not be sworn in, and would be ignored.

Unless of course you make a big splash. And then you can cause political change/conversation: see The Governator, Mr. Trump. etc. Arnold couldn't be elected, but people talked about changing the rules. And Mr. Trump, while normally would never be considered as a viable candidate, he proves all you need is peoples *attention* (and thus their votes) to make it. It challenges what we think of the process, and it proves that it's really just a popularity contest.

[*Anastasia]

Normally I would agree with you — anyone born to a citizen is a "natural born" citizen regardless of where that birth actually occurred. However, since it hassles Ted Cruz, a man I actively detest, I am perfectly comfortable being more nit-picky. Donald Trump is quite correct when he states that the matter has not been officially settled, although the overwhelming majority of experts concur that it would be settled in Cruz's favor. Yet there are some special circumstances. The term "natural born" has never been defined, for example. And while John Mccain was born outside of the US proper, he was born on US territory, since the Panama Canal Zone (where he was born) was under US jurisdiction at the time. Mccain also had two American parents, and never had any passport but a American one. One of Cruz's parents was not American (his father was a Cuban immigrant to Canada) and he carried dual citizenship until just a few years ago when he renounced the Canadian side. These issues make the matter just a little murkier, and give Trump the wiggle room to make his birther attacks. Which I think is just fantastic.

Somewhat related:

 

 

Trump is the leading GOP vote-getter tonight, among natural-born-American candidates.

— Ann Coulter (@AnnCoulter) February 2, 2016

[ᗅᗺᗷᗅ]

Changing the rules is effectively off the table. The hurdles necessary for a Constitutional amendment are, by design, difficult to reach even at the best of times. In today's political environment they are impossible.

 

I think, KiWi, that when people talk about who "can" run, they mean legally. Otherwise the conversation descends into utter chaos.

 

Related question: Those of you who are not American, does your country have a rule that your leader must be a natural born citizen?

[He who posts]

Related question: Those of you who are not American, does your country have a rule that your leader must be a natural born citizen?

At least 18 and living in a municipality of the Netherlands. And being Dutch or EU citizen. You can play quartet with the citizenships you have if you want.

[KiWi]

Changing the rules is effectively off the table. The hurdles necessary for a Constitutional amendment are, by design, difficult to reach even at the best of times. In today's political environment they are impossible.
 
I think, KiWi, that when people talk about who "can" run, they mean legally. Otherwise the conversation descends into utter chaos.
 
Related question: Those of you who are not American, does your country have a rule that your leader must be a natural born citizen?

Of course. But just challenging it proves your "worth" or star power. Which is good for other things (esp if you don't really want to be President).

While I agree, if you're popular enough to actually get votes, even win a Cacusus without being a natural born citizen, well, we should take every chance to point it out

I may be stubborn on this point, but I actually believe that's an important requirement. For how rarely a viable candidate comes around that isn't a natural born citizen, if we deny some great messiah of leadership, I think I'd be okay with that. Now if it was the other way around, say I lived in France my whole life, and I couldn't become President; I'd be real bummed. But, how likely could I enter a new country with no ties, and get up that high? idk. I'll think about it a bit, but I don't see it as too important. And just citizenship for Congress/being a representative (vs. the Leader of the Free World-TradeMark) I think is less of a hurdle/completely legitiatme. Just like you can't represent New York if you live in California. Or if you move to New York, you need to have lived there a little while.

[He who posts]

 if we deny some great messiah of leadership

 
Your making me blush.

[ᗅᗺᗷᗅ]

Natural born citizenship is not a requirement for Congress, nor indeed for any job except president and vice president. Residency in the state you represent is a requirement, although length of residency requirements vary from state to state. 

 

Frankly the natural born requirement seems pointless to me. As you say, the likelihood of a foreigner rising so high is not great; anyone who successfully did so would likely have lived here for a long time and have become an American in any meaningful sense of the word. No one would vote for them otherwise. The same is true in most countries, I would imagine. Native citizenship requirements address a problem that doesn't exist.

[*Anastasia]

Related question: Those of you who are not American, does your country have a rule that your leader must be a natural born citizen?

No, and for very good reason: Canadian Confederation occurred in 1867, but the status of 'Canadian citizen' did not exist until 1910. Before then, we were merely British subjects, and although there may have been a requirement that our leaders be such, the term was so broad, covering at times over a fifth of the world population, that it was hardly a stringent requirement.

Our head of state is the Queen, who is to the best of my knowledge not a citizen and never has been. Her viceroy, the Governor General, has historically also generally not been a citizen at all, and certainly few were born such. Of our Governors General since 1867, all were British or Irish peers until 1952; of those 17 peers, one each was born in Ireland, India, Italy, and Scotland, and thirteen were born in England. Of the 11 Governors General since 1952, one was born in Hong Kong, and our most-recent foreign-born vicereine, Michaëlle Jean, was born in Haiti, and served as Governor General until 2010. Only 8 of 28 Canadian Governors General were born in Canada.

More of our Prime Ministers, as heads of government, were born in Canada or one of its predecessor colonies, but such was certainly not universal: 4 of our 23 premiers were foreign-born. Our first Prime Minister, Sir John A. Macdonald, was born in Scotland, as was his successor. Our fifth Prime Minister was born in England, as was the much more recent John Turner, our seventeenth Prime Minister, who governed Canada for 79 days in 1984.

[*Anastasia]

Also on a related note, the other day I stumbled across the video you made with Beard, Jor, where you used Julia Gillard as a stand-in for a picture of Redezra. She's from Wales, though.

[Redezra]

And I am half welsh. Therefore all good

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Ironically, everyone involved with writing the "natural born" clause was born a British subject.

[ᗅᗺᗷᗅ]

Also on a related note, the other day I stumbled across the video you made with Beard, Jor, where you used Julia Gillard as a stand-in for a picture of Redezra. She's from Wales, though.

 

Redezra IS Julia Gillard. She's hiding in plain sight. It's all part of her plan.

[Redezra]

1. Gillard has a far thicker accent than me. I have been repeatedly mistaken for being British with an Australian accent rather than Australian with a really light accent. And this is by Australians. Given, we do have different accents around the country, believe it or not.
2. Gillard has red hair. I have the red hair gene, but unfortunately have the brown hair gene too, so I've got dark hair.
3. Gillard is waaaay too nice.