91 replies to this topic

[ᗅᗺᗷᗅ]

The Norman invasion was 1000 years ago; it's kind of hard to separate them out now. And "invaded us?" You're from Canada, Haf. I don't recall the Normans invading Canada.

I was born in Canada, but my ancestors are from Ulster and Wales. The European invasion of North America was 500 years ago, you know. It's not exactly recent history either.

Agreed. That's why I don't say things like "we" invaded North America, in reference to the English. "We" refers to you and your immediate family, not your ancestors 1000 years ago. You probably have just as much invader DNA as invaded.
 

The French law targets anyone who wears a face covering in certain public places. Try an experiment: Walk into a bank wearing a balaclava and see how long it takes before you find yourself on ground in handcuffs. Public safety takes precedence over mythological beliefs. Period.

Try walking past a ski lodge wearing a balaclava, see if you get arrested. (Hint: You won't.) The French want to stop Muslims from having that freedom.

The rule only affected face coverings in certain places, basically the same areas where it would be illegal or highly questionable here (banks, post offices, schools, train stations, etc.). I think in places where such coverings were the norm, like ski lodges, it probably wouldn't apply. I'm certainly no expert on it. But I would be quick to point out that any display of Christianity, or any other faith besides Islam, is strictly forbidden in Islamic countries. As a non-Muslim I was not even allowed to go certain places. It works both ways. Cultures get paranoid and want to protect themselves. I think it's silly, but no one ever asks me. That said, civil law should always, always take precedence over religious dogma. I could not walk into a bank with my face covered; why should a Muslim get to do so? Just because their religion says so? That's not a good enough answer.

[Shokkou]

Wow, you're totally politically incorrect! You don't understand why people seem to have so many feelings all of a sudden. You love a good joke, no matter at whose expense, and you're an equal opportunity offender. You don't take things too seriously, and you're likely to think that life is too short to get worked up over every joke that could possibly be interpreted as offensive. You think being PC has gotten out of control and that free speech is under attack. You've got thick skin and a mischievous streak, which are a dangerous combination because you don't always realize when you're offending people. We recommend some much needed sensitivity training! What do you think? Come on, tell us exactly what you think!

QED

[Haflinger]

The French law targets anyone who wears a face covering in certain public places. Try an experiment: Walk into a bank wearing a balaclava and see how long it takes before you find yourself on ground in handcuffs. Public safety takes precedence over mythological beliefs. Period.

Try walking past a ski lodge wearing a balaclava, see if you get arrested. (Hint: You won't.) The French want to stop Muslims from having that freedom.

The rule only affected face coverings in certain places, basically the same areas where it would be illegal or highly questionable here (banks, post offices, schools, train stations, etc.).

No, you are factually incorrect here.

 

As of 11 April 2011, it is illegal to wear a face-covering veil or other mask in public places such as the street, shops, museums, public transportation, and parks

Source: https://en.wikipedia...n_face_covering

 

PARKS!

[ᗅᗺᗷᗅ]

Go to a public park wearing a face mask anywhere in the United States and see how long it takes the cops to show up.

 

Well, okay, except on Halloween.

[Shokkou]

Cops showing up to check something out is not the same as it being illegal.

[HordeLorde]

Cops showing up to check something out is not the same as it being illegal.

meh that depends on what cop you talk to.

[*Anastasia]

Cops showing up to check something out is not the same as it being illegal.

meh that depends on what cop you talk to.
 

And whether you happen to be black, brown, or trans while asking said cop, too.

[Shokkou]

Anyone who would abuse their authority in such a manner ought to be strung up for treason. They serve the people, not the other way around.

[Lord Draculea]

When I was in New York a few years ago, a black man stopped me in the street, to ask me how he could get somewhere. Obviously, I didn't know the answer to what he was looking for, so I suggested he should ask a policeman. He looked at me in total astonishment, then laughed, as saying something like "c'mon man, are you nuts?!". It was really surprising for me to realize that balck people were even afraid to talk to policemen!...

[Lord Draculea]

When I was in New York a few years ago, a black man stopped me in the street, to ask me how he could get somewhere. Obviously, I didn't know the answer to what he was looking for, so I suggested he should ask a policeman. He looked at me in total astonishment, then laughed, as saying something like "c'mon man, are you nuts?!". It was really surprising for me to realize that balck people were even afraid to talk to policemen!...

[Haflinger]

Go to a public park wearing a face mask anywhere in the United States and see how long it takes the cops to show up.

 

Well, okay, except on Halloween.

Or in North Dakota in January.

 

The reason France's niqab ban could not be applied in Canada is really simple: walking outside in January in places like Ottawa and Winnipeg, you need to cover your face.

 

Seriously dude, I know you're trying to cover for them, but the fact is they banned people from walking down the street wearing a veil. This is insane.

[Lord Draculea]

Haf, do you know what a burka is? Seriously man, you can't mistake that for a bad weather cover.

[*Anastasia]

Haf, do you know what a burka is? Seriously man, you can't mistake that for a bad weather cover.

That doesn't stop the fact the government is literally telling women what they can and can't wear. The whole point is they make the law as vague as possible in order to cover up its obviously bigoted purpose.

[Lord Draculea]

In France, where the anti face-covering law is in force, the same law also prohibits the wearing of crucifixes in public. I don't know how you see it, but for me it's obvious that wearing a burka by a Muslim is just as ostentatious as wearing a visible crucifix by a Christian.

 

In my country, there's a small native Muslim minority, but I've never seen one of them wearing a burka. Are they "less Muslim" than others? How about the billions of Muslims all over the world not wearing it? Most Muslim women just cover their hair, and that's perfectly acceptable for them, as well as for everybody else. Why do some of them need to show off that they are "more Muslim" than others, and why should we let them do that? Are we going to start a stupid (to say the least) war of displaying our religious symbols in public? No secular society should allow that to happen.

[He who posts]

To start, like it or not most countries have had not allowing covering your face as a law for ages and from before most knew what a Muslim was. Like some television presenter years ago liked to drive around with his cabrio while wearing a balaclava at night, he sort of stopped because it started to cost a bit much has he kept getting pulled over. Shopping centers don't like it because they get robbed a fucking lot same for banks. Biking or driving a motor when its winter nobody gives a fuck, you have a reason. Around protests its illegal because they sort of want to see who it is, tend to have warnings like putting your scarf down.

 

Now the niqab and burka are fucking rare to begin with in Europe to the point where it's a fucking none issue. There is also no proof that they somehow steal more. And the most pressure to wear it is under the females themselves with a few exceptions as always. Meanwhile, it's not required by all of Islam just like how some Christian shit still requires females to wear hats to church while others don't. Makes identification in some points difficult but hey fingerprints in passports are better than the outdated photo technology.

 

So it's a problem that isn't one and will solve itself in a few generations probably as Muslims in the west do get more moderate. And people creating laws of political reasons should just find something better to do than creating redundant laws.

[*Anastasia]

In France, where the anti face-covering law is in force, the same law also prohibits the wearing of crucifixes in public. I don't know how you see it, but for me it's obvious that wearing a burka by a Muslim is just as ostentatious as wearing a visible crucifix by a Christian.
 
In my country, there's a small native Muslim minority, but I've never seen one of them wearing a burka. Are they "less Muslim" than others? How about the billions of Muslims all over the world not wearing it? Most Muslim women just cover their hair, and that's perfectly acceptable for them, as well as for everybody else. Why do some of them need to show off that they are "more Muslim" than others, and why should we let them do that? Are we going to start a stupid (to say the least) war of displaying our religious symbols in public? No secular society should allow that to happen.

If you're going to use secularism as a weapon to tell anyone of any religion how they can and cannot express their religious identity—or worse yet, pass judgment upon those who do it in ways you're not personally comfortable with—then you're giving secularism the same reverence as any religious person gives their own faith, and acting as fanatical as the religious fundamentalists you would purport to oppose.

[Lord Draculea]

Well, if I'll ever become a "fundamentalist", then it is going to happen because of other people's fundamentalism. Action determines reaction, and one form of saying "I'm better that you" leads to the proliferation of other similar behaviours. And suddenly you find yourself in the middle of a religious war.

 

Face covering by the Muslim women (who btw, are usually told by their men/fathers/whatever to do so, and there's no way for them to say "no" to a man) is obviously a political statement - and a fundamentalist one too - rather than a religious prescription. And religious fundamentalism is no longer religion per se, it's political extremism. Do we really want to discover what the chain reaction is going to be if one form of fundamentalism spreads all over? I don't think so.

[ᗅᗺᗷᗅ]

Fanaticism is fine as long as it's in support of the things I support.

 

To me the issue is simple: No one is exempt from the law, no matter what their religion says. If the interests of public safety are served by not allowing face coverings in certain areas, then it should apply to everyone. Now, I am not sure that there is any legitimate public safety reason for such a ban (to prevent bank robberies, I suppose), but if I saw compelling data I could be convinced.

 

As for Muslims wearing face coverings in Western countries, that "problem" will self resolve in a generation or so. The children of immigrants tend to be far more assimilated than their parents.

[Lord Draculea]

As for Muslims wearing face coverings in Western countries, that "problem" will self resolve in a generation or so. The children of immigrants tend to be far more assimilated than their parents.

 

...Except when it's the other way round. It's not the Western first generation of Muslim immigrants that's currently fighting for ISIS in Syria and where else. Or turning into lone suicidal bombers. I wish things were so simple and linear, but they're not.

[Manoka]

Wreally, that weak ass argument, you can't have a face covering?

 

Wearing a face covering doesn't automatically make you a bad guy, anymore than wearing a beard covers up your face and means you are concealing your identity. What's next, wearing gloves can stop you from leaving fingerprints or wearing clothes can cover up identifying features and so you have to go naked everywhere?

 

 

It's a blatant attack against religion and you know it. 

 

That's why you support it.

 

 

It's not like it's actually illegal to wear a ski mask. Nor should it be. That's just crazy.