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Poll: Weed (21 member(s) have cast votes)

Should Cannabis be legalized?

  1. Yes (11 votes [52.38%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 52.38%

  2. No (5 votes [23.81%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 23.81%

  3. Other (4 votes [19.05%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 19.05%

  4. Abstain - NASCAR'S OPTION SO HE CAN SEE RESULTS (1 votes [4.76%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 4.76%

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#41 *Anastasia

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Posted 07 April 2013 - 11:13 AM


Yeah let's be clear. The reason I'm in favour of legalizing pot is not because I'm a huge fan of marijuana, it's because I hate biker gangs. Red, you live in a place that doesn't have nearly as many of these problems, but over here bikers are a serious threat to public safety.
 
Depriving bikers of their primary cash flow strikes me as being better for the public than any possible benefits from outlawing a recreational drug that most of the population has fairly easy access to anyway, and would probably require us to bankrupt the state hiring police officers to successfully outlaw.

 
Biker gangs (actually our biggest organized crime problem right now is cartels but...) get almost as much money from illegal arms sells.
 
So, do we legalize all guns, too?
 



I'm not going to try to state an opinion on gun control in general, since my views tend to be considered unorthodox from both sides of the debate (at least as far as the American debate goes), but I will say that interestingly enough, most Canadian biker gangs sell arms which are legally purchased in the US, then smuggled across the border and sold at a huge markup to people here who can't get a gun because of our universal background checks. So I imagine that if cannabis became legal in one jurisdiction, neighboring jurisdictions may actually see an increase in related crime.

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#42 Redezra

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Posted 07 April 2013 - 06:05 PM

Which is why I stand for global government and coordination. Like a UN with teeth.



#43 *Anastasia

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Posted 07 April 2013 - 06:14 PM

Which is why I stand for global government and coordination. Like a UN with teeth.


Yes, that's just what we need. A global government that imposes its morals, values, and beliefs on anyone who disagrees with it. If people in one part of the world want to smoke weed, TOO BAD, because the World Government doesn't like it.

This coming from the woman who screamed bloody murder at the thought of Muslims doing the same thing to her? Give me a fucking break.

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#44 Haflinger

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Posted 07 April 2013 - 06:55 PM

Also, why don't you just... oh, I dunno... get your ludicrously large army to round up those biker gangs?


I live in Canada. As of 2012, we have 68,250 active frontline personnel, and 47,081 active reserve personnel. That might sound like a lot. It's not. Australia has 47,135 active frontline personnel, and 29,396 active reserve personnel as of 2012. Canada's population in the 2011 census was 33,476,688. Australia's population in the 2011 census was 21,507,717.

Roughly .34% of our population is in the military. Roughly 0.36% of your population is in the military. Going by the numbers, your army is bigger than ours on a per capita basis.

Unlike the United States, we mostly have a balanced budget. (Well it was, before we got infested with right-wingers who thought that cutting taxes would help balance the budget. Sigh. But we're still in a much better position than the Americans.) A large part of the reason why that is is because we do not have an insanely large military whose main purpose appears to be bankrupting the country.

Our military is still bigger than our current prison population at least. As of July 31 of last year, we set a record high with 15,097 inmates in federal prisons (those convicted and serving a sentence of two years or longer in our system go to federal prison, so those are all serious offenders), but I can't even imagine how many prisons we'd have to build to hold all the pot dealers across this country.

 

Organized crime gets almost as much money from illegal arms sales as drugs, and exotic animals are pretty close up there.

Do we legalize all these things, too?

lolwut exotic animals?

Firstly, let's be clear. The money in organized crime in North America is in the following things: drugs, prostitution, gambling, theft, and extortion. Illegal gun sales are not a big business here. That's because most of the guns that are held by criminal organizations are bought legally by someone else and then stolen, and then modified by criminal organizations to make them impossible to track.

However, even if guns were as big a moneymaker as pot, it's still an apples and oranges case. If I stick a gun to your head and pull the trigger, you die. If I stick a joint to your head and ... do something silly with it, you maybe die laughing.

 

 

Which is why I stand for global government and coordination. Like a UN with teeth.

If you have global democracy: There are way more Chinese than Australians. B-)



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#45 Redezra

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Posted 07 April 2013 - 08:40 PM

Which is why I stand for global government and coordination. Like a UN with teeth.


Yes, that's just what we need. A global government that imposes its morals, values, and beliefs on anyone who disagrees with it. If people in one part of the world want to smoke weed, TOO BAD, because the World Government doesn't like it.

This coming from the woman who screamed bloody murder at the thought of Muslims doing the same thing to her? Give me a fucking break.

 

Just because I advocate a cultured, advanced set of morals rather than an iron age, barbaric one doesn't mean you have to be a whiny bitch about it. You want to go play nice with the uncultured team? Move to Saudi Arabia. Be my fucking guest.



#46 Jon32492

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 01:30 AM

.... aaand you missed it.

I've basically said "If you want to smoke weed cause it 'feels good', you are too immature to be left in the room with it. Give to mama 'Dezra. There go. Was that so hard?"


So....... you are saying you'd let your kids smoke under your supervision? :P No, I'm kidding. But I understand that even as a parent, there's no way I can stop my kids from smoking it. Take my 14 year cousin for example, like I said, his parents have no idea. Nobody is gonna stop him. I did my best to talk him out of doing it, but he showed me he's gonna do whatever he wants no matter I say. The best thing I can do as a parent is make sure my kids understand the dangers of it and trust them to make the right choices when I'm not around.



Yeah let's be clear. The reason I'm in favour of legalizing pot is not because I'm a huge fan of marijuana, it's because I hate biker gangs. Red, you live in a place that doesn't have nearly as many of these problems, but over here bikers are a serious threat to public safety.

Depriving bikers of their primary cash flow strikes me as being better for the public than any possible benefits from outlawing a recreational drug that most of the population has fairly easy access to anyway, and would probably require us to bankrupt the state hiring police officers to successfully outlaw.


But does this make any sense?! O_o?



I didn't say that. Haf did. lol. Damn this new forum system.

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#47 Redezra

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 06:26 AM

So....... you are saying you'd let your kids smoke under your supervision? :P No, I'm kidding. But I understand that even as a parent, there's no way I can stop my kids from smoking it. Take my 14 year cousin for example, like I said, his parents have no idea. Nobody is gonna stop him. I did my best to talk him out of doing it, but he showed me he's gonna do whatever he wants no matter I say. The best thing I can do as a parent is make sure my kids understand the dangers of it and trust them to make the right choices when I'm not around.

 

Then obviously he has been badly parented and needs intervention. Or he's a lost cause anyway.


Edited by Redezra, 08 April 2013 - 06:26 AM.


#48 Jon32492

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 11:48 AM

I disagree. And I'd be careful if I were you. You just said my Aunt and Uncle are bad parents. They have done all they can do to put him on the right path, but believe it or not, there are other things in a child's life that influence them other than their parents. One major one is called peer pressure. Also, I'd hardly call him a "lost cause" just because he smokes. Literally everybody I know, except for myself, has smoked weed at some point. Idk how it is over there in the land down under, but up here, it's a very common thing and just cause you do it, doesn't mean you are a "lost cause". Many of our celebrities have done way worse than that and look at their position in society. When one dies, the country mourns for months. Longer than we mourned my own mother's death.

My point was that kids are gonna do whatever they want no matter what you do. The only thing you can do as a parent is educate your kids about the dangers of it and hope they make the right choices when you are not around. As for adults doing it.... well, nobody is going to stop them, hopefully, they already understand the consequences.

One of my friends recently got busted for doing weed and is now on probation, he's not doing it while he's on probation cause his PO can come over anytime and test him for drugs. But he says he may not start smoking it again after he's off of probation. But all in all, he's gonna do what he wants to do when the time comes. All his roommates smoke it so he probably will too.

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#49 Manoka

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 12:13 PM

You can't be serious. -.-

 

Most illegal firearms are made in illegal sweat shops and then smuggled into the U.S. >.>



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#50 Haflinger

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 04:55 PM

Do you really believe that?

 

The US is the largest exporter of illegal firearms in the world. It's the biggest single problem Canada Customs has to face: the amount of weaponry being smuggled from your side of the border.



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#51 ᗅᗺᗷᗅ

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 06:12 PM

Firearms are one of the few things still made in the United States.  Guns, Cheez Whiz, and Nascar.  All made by real 'Murricans.



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#52 Redezra

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Posted 09 April 2013 - 07:41 PM

I disagree. And I'd be careful if I were you. You just said my Aunt and Uncle are bad parents. They have done all they can do to put him on the right path, but believe it or not, there are other things in a child's life that influence them other than their parents. One major one is called peer pressure. Also, I'd hardly call him a "lost cause" just because he smokes. Literally everybody I know, except for myself, has smoked weed at some point. Idk how it is over there in the land down under, but up here, it's a very common thing and just cause you do it, doesn't mean you are a "lost cause". Many of our celebrities have done way worse than that and look at their position in society. When one dies, the country mourns for months. Longer than we mourned my own mother's death.

My point was that kids are gonna do whatever they want no matter what you do. The only thing you can do as a parent is educate your kids about the dangers of it and hope they make the right choices when you are not around. As for adults doing it.... well, nobody is going to stop them, hopefully, they already understand the consequences.

One of my friends recently got busted for doing weed and is now on probation, he's not doing it while he's on probation cause his PO can come over anytime and test him for drugs. But he says he may not start smoking it again after he's off of probation. But all in all, he's gonna do what he wants to do when the time comes. All his roommates smoke it so he probably will too.

 

I'm sorry Jon~~ Didn't mean to insult you~~~

 

I'm prone to statements like that... mostly because I'm totally irreverent in that regard and go "Well, might as well know. You should find it useful".

I'm of the belief that there are three sociological artefacts that lead to MJ use.

 

1.) Hold over from the sixties.

2.) Self medication.

3.) Incorrect application of rules and guidelines during growing up.

 

Currently, my cousin-once-removed is suffering from the third one. Although, if I ever find him smoking pot, I will smack the shit out of him. Then my Auntie will very nearly kill him. And then she will watch him like a hawk, and he will never take drugs again. The women in my family have a history of being very hardline. It goes all the way back to my great-great-great-great-grandmother :)



#53 Manoka

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Posted 09 April 2013 - 11:02 PM

She can choose to leave him any time she wants, but she doesn't; therefore, she must want the abuse.

 

I guess there's no reason for us to get involved.


Edited by Manoka, 09 April 2013 - 11:06 PM.


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#54 Manoka

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Posted 09 April 2013 - 11:06 PM

Do you really believe that?

 

The US is the largest exporter of illegal firearms in the world. It's the biggest single problem Canada Customs has to face: the amount of weaponry being smuggled from your side of the border.

 

You realize that there are more Ak-47 type weapons than any other type in the world right, so, it would have to be Russia.

 

And China, Pakistan and Iran of course; allied communists country's at one point, who made large volumes of the weapons. It's not really possible to be the U.S. Even if you want to say we are exporting a lot, which I can prove we aren't, it's not even possible for it to be the primary weapon.

 

 

The U.S.'s most favorite weapon is the AR-15; so far, about 8 million have been created. There are over 100 million Ak-47's type weapons in the world.

 

The math is very simple. And most of these AR-15's are in government or civilian hands, not cartels or other organizations. 

 

 

What confuses people is Obama's GOA (government accountability office) report said that 87% of firearms found in Mexico were traceable to the U.S.; the problem with this is that, the weapons only make up the number of traceable weapons. Since most firearms are not traceable, as they are made in illegal gun shops, and chemically retrievable serial codes are almost impossible to remove without destroying the functioning parts of the weapon, for the most part, any weapon that's not traceable either doesn't work or isn't of American, European, etc. legal origin.

 

According to the GAO report, some 30,000 firearms were seized from criminals by Mexican authorities in 2008. Of these 30,000 firearms, information pertaining to 7,200 of them (24 percent) was submitted to the U.S. Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) for tracing. Of these 7,200 guns, only about 4,000 could be traced by the ATF, and of these 4,000, some 3,480 (87 percent) were shown to have come from the United States. Therefore the 3,480 figure only represents a total of 11.5% of the total 30,000 guns recovered, indicating that the other 90% or so weren't even traceable, meaning that could not have been of legal origin.

 

Further more, In 2009, Mexico reported that they held 305,424 confiscated firearms, but submitted data of only 69,808 recovered firearms to the ATF for tracing between 2007 and 2009. This is roughly a 23% sample of total gun population. The ATF requests "to only submit weapons for tracing that have a likelihood of tracing back to the U.S .... instead of simply wasting resources on tracing firearms that will not trigger a U.S. source." As a result, it's likely that the vast majority of the 305,424 firearms weren't even possible to be of American origin. Operating off this principle, then only roughly 1.1% of total firearms recovered in Mexico were traceable to the U.S. It is also notable that there have been 150,000 desertions from the Mexican army during 2003 to 2009, or about one-eighth of the Mexican army deserts annually. Many of these deserters are known to take weapons with them, some of which have been American provided weapons, to Mexico's military. As a result it's easy to see how only likely, a staggering small percent of weapons in the Drug Cartel's possession come from the U.S.

 

Put another way, while the 87% figure is almost true, it is 87% of 55% of 24% of 10% of all weapons, or roughly 1.1% of all weapons, and given that 1/8th of the Mexican army deserts annually and usually brings their illegally obtained weapons with them, the vast majority of illegal weapons of U.S origin likely are not coming from civilian stores. Hence it's unlikely that the U.S. is contributing to the Cartel's crime, while the cartel's are obviously smuggling illegal contraband into the U.S., clearly not of U.S. origin.[1][2][PDF]

 

 

Comparatively, the U.S. is right next to the home of the single largest cartels in the world, or the Mexican drug cartels. These cartels dominate the smuggling of blackmarket goods into the U.S., from drugs, to guns, to humans, to exotic animals, delivering over 90% of the illegal contraband into the U.S. In addition, their primary routes involve over land transportation methods, making sharing a closely geographically related land connection with the world's largest, most successful, and arguably most powerful cartel incredibly dangerous, and likely to increase crime and the presence of illegal contraband as a result. Crime is known to be higher at border states and border crossings than in other areas of the country.

 

However, in particular, they are responsible for approximately 90% of the illegal contraband in the U.S. Therefore, it would be difficult to impede the flow of illegal guns into the U.S. without some form of physical barrier, such as a large ocean, to decrease traffic into the U.S., but more or less it's easy to implicate the cartels in the smuggling of pre-soviet firearms into the U.S. The vast majority of weapons used in crimes or in organized crime are clearly not of U.S. origin, and it's easy to make that connection without exact statistics.


Edited by Manoka, 10 April 2013 - 08:11 AM.


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#55 *Anastasia

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Posted 09 April 2013 - 11:12 PM


Do you really believe that?
 
The US is the largest exporter of illegal firearms in the world. It's the biggest single problem Canada Customs has to face: the amount of weaponry being smuggled from your side of the border.

 
You realize that there are more Ak-47 type weapons than any other type in the world right, so, it would have to be Russia.
 
The math is very simple.
 



Not more than all other types combined, and not all AK47-type weapons are made in Russia. In fact, some, like the SA M-7, are American made. The math is very simple.

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#56 Manoka

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Posted 09 April 2013 - 11:31 PM

 

Do you really believe that?
 
The US is the largest exporter of illegal firearms in the world. It's the biggest single problem Canada Customs has to face: the amount of weaponry being smuggled from your side of the border.

 
You realize that there are more Ak-47 type weapons than any other type in the world right, so, it would have to be Russia.
 
The math is very simple.
 

 


Not more than all other types combined, and not all AK47-type weapons are made in Russia. In fact, some, like the SA M-7, are American made. The math is very simple.

 

The vast majority were made in Russia and communist countries before the fall of the soviet union and now the fall out, of these weapons and nuclear bombs they can't really keep a very good track on, are found in Iran, Iraq, even the cartels.

 

The American versions are clones, semi-automatic versions, not fully automatic, so they're not exactly real Ak-47's.


Edited by Manoka, 09 April 2013 - 11:37 PM.


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#57 Haflinger

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 06:24 PM

AK47-type weaponry is popular compared to other assault weapons because it's efficient. However the vast majority of illegally held firearms are not assault weapons at all, but handguns. That's where the US dominates the market.



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#58 Justavictim82

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Posted 15 April 2013 - 09:24 AM

Legalize everything. The last thing we need is a nanny state. You can regulate pot so more taxes are generated. Hell you could even use most/all of the money for drug treatment centers for those who are addicted to hardcore narcotics. Even better, you save money by reducing prison sizes. Win-win situation. And before anyone says 'marijuana is bad, mkay'.... show me where someone overdosed on it, show me anything outside of a handful of traffic stops/accidents where it is determental to society.

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#59 Princess xR1

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Posted 15 April 2013 - 09:58 AM

It's less dangerous than alcohol, and the attempt at prohibition has created an enormous organized crime base to sell it, much like US alcohol prohibition in the 1930s did.

 

From smoking around 3/4 a gram to a gram of dope has detrimental effects on ones driving skills. That is not much pot at all. They could be a danger to society.

 

http://io9.com/59850...-driving-skills

 

 

Also, for those saying to tax the "shit" out of it. What's going to stop people from selling it themselves as they do now. They get all profits, the government doesn't make any money. That's what will happen. Drug Cartels will still send their weed over and people will still sell it to where the government reaps no profit.



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#60 Redezra

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Posted 17 April 2013 - 06:31 PM

I vote "Legalise Nothing" because it's a threat to public safety on the same level as tobacco, if not more so.





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