56 replies to this topic

[PrinceVegeta]

KB showed me a video, that, basically proved a lot of the things that I've thought that the Human race should think on and act on, as truthful, and efficient ways of living.

KB I want to thank you. For once in a VERY long time, my heart has been touched, and I feel, like my purpose has been revealed to me. I know, some of you, think I am a so called "Tinfoil hatter", and that I believe in conspiracies, and evil governments. The truth about all that, was, I was confused. I wasn't trying to be a "kook", but it turned out, that, as I was learning these things, and when I explained some of my findings, the puzzle was incomplete. Thus making me sound foolish, and idiotic. However, I now see the truth, and I now see what has to be done. Conspiracy theories, are not even that. They are manifestations of the anger of the people, towards a government that is not evil, but greedy and selfish. There intent is not to rule the world, but to rule the wealth. They don't want to kill, they want the money, however, with that money, comes another price. That price being someones life.

Like that movie...The Box. Where, you could get a million dollars if you pressed the button, in exchange for someone loosing there life. Here, in this day and age...millions and millions of "buttons" are being pressed. Without any remorse, because the blinding fog that greed and selfishness provides. The rich, need to be taught, not killed, not imprisoned...but taught, that what they are doing is meaningless, and that the struggles that even they go through, to achieve money, and achieve power, are meaningless. They don't have to work there ass off for pieces of paper. No one does. So if you haven't seen the video, I ask you to take two hours out of your busy schedules, and watch this video, if you have, post a reply...

Once again, thank you for showing this to me KB, you don't how much the information it provided changed my view on the world and its people. This, removed a lot of past angers that I've been dealing with, although I am still mad about them, but at least now, I have some kind of reason of why they happened, instead of not knowing why, and that angering me. Used to have certain amounts of hate for people whom I didn't even know. I had an extreme furious hate of my race, and my fellow human being. Now though, I see why these things are happening. It all connects together so sweetly...even religion, from what I had derived from the Bible, talked about the main principle behind todays turmoil. Money. In the Bible, somewhere, I don't remember, but it says that "Money is the root of all evil". And that is true. The evils that we see today: Poverty, Killing, Raping, Wars, Diseases, all of it...it's because of Money, and the greed and selfishness of having it all, blind to the fact, that, you are entitled to it already, without paying any collateral.

I had somewhat of an understanding of this...but I thought that no one else wanted what I had wanted, and I doubted myself in thinking if it would even work. However I lacked the knowledge to look at it so deeply, but the information given in the video, has given the pieces of the puzzle that I had been missing. So thank you KB, you changed my life. I would've never of came across this, because I stopped looking at these things on Youtube, and tried to stay a bit on music instead of...the end of the world....but yeah...

[Redezra]

Ah crap. KB, I'm blaming you for this

[PrinceVegeta]

[King Biscuit]

King Biscuit tips his hat.

I will admit, this didn't come to me very easily.
When I watched the original Zeitgeist movie, along with Loose Change, I was at first shocked, angry, and above all else, doubtful.
This was not the world I was brought up in.
Or was it?

What came to mind shortly after seeing Zeitgeist, was a quote from a gentleman(I think Tim Leary), whom I only know from a Tool song:

"Think for yourself. Question authority."
So the search was on.

Over the years I've read some pretty crazy shit, but in the end it all returns to that one thing: Money and acquiring money for the sake of money.


Bah, I could go on for a piece about all of this, but in the end, it's you(other people) who have to figure things out for themselves.
At any rate, I'm glad I could share.

[ᗅᗺᗷᗅ]

I believe we may see the end of money as we know it in our lifetimes.

[King Biscuit]

One would hope so.

[Jon32492]

I believe we may see the end of money as we know it in our lifetimes.

a radio show I was listening to a little while ago was speculating on 10 things that would be obsolete in 10 years, among them was money. At the time, I was like, wtf? And still I'm not sure how that would work. I mean, I can't imagine a world without some kind of medium of exchange or class system, and money is what puts that together. I don't have time to watch an almost 3 hour video so idk if that's what is discussed in the video, but I just can't see it. Perhaps one of you that have been studying all this can enlighten me.

[PrinceVegeta]

I just did a lot of studying, and it seems, that "The Venus Project" is quite similar(Don't freakout)...it's very similar, to, if you look at in a religious perspective, the same ideals that "God" had in the beginning when he created man.

The Venus Project calls for the removing of the Monetary system, and replacing it with a more efficient, non-monetary system that instead of using a currency, the things that you would attain, would be attained, because of labor. So basically, you get, based on if you work(ed). It's similar to the some Biblical text. From the "God" perspective: When God created Adam, he told him, to take dominion over the Earth, basically telling all of mankind to take dominion. Which would mean that man kind as a single vessel would tame the planet and its resources, thus removing the need to fight over anything because you already own it, as a race. Which is the beginning stages of the Venus project. Man comes together as one, and takes dominion. No war. Tech advances because of compromise, etc.

Another example, Jesus’ single act of vandalism and violence occurred in the Herod’s Temple, in the courtyard of which livestock were up for sale and the ‘money changers’ exchanged Greek and Roman money for Jewish and Tyrian currency. The money changers. It's close to what we have today in the Monetary system, when exchanging foreign currencies. It seems Jesus was against that, not only because it was disgracing the sacred temple, but it was stealing, because they were also stealing from the Jewish people. In this day and age, the consumer, is being stolen from, every time they buy something, or take out a loan, it just creates more debt, and the 1% is basically taking money from the middle and lower class, and Jesus doesn't like stealing. Jesus also speaks of greed as being a quite terrible thing to live by. Since greed removes empathy, and empathy is caring about someone/something, and caring is love. Jesus says that he is love, meaning that he's the genuine symbol of what unconditional love is.

I'm gonna do a good bit more looking into this, because, my father, when I showed him, debated that Jesus was going to do the same thing, during the "1000 Year Millennium", in which he brings a "Utopian" like city down to Earth and establishes a new governing system, which would include something close to a resource based economy. So then I asked him, what if man succeeds in creating the ideas of the Venus Project, before the supposed "Coming of Christ?" He then gave me the normal religious prophecy banter, which would be, you know, "No because God won't allow it". Which I won't turn down, because of the similarities I'm finding, but I will challenge because it's not showing anything more, I have theories but those are just theories. However, the deal basically is this: 1. We remove the monetary system and achieve the Venus Project, or 2. We do not achieve the Venus Project, and Christianity was right all along, and 3. The Human race goes extinct due to widespread chaos, such as thermonuclear war or we just kill each other like barbaric idiots.

Back to the lab.

[ᗅᗺᗷᗅ]

I didn't watch any of the Zeitgeist movies -- too long and ponderous, and anyway in my case they're preaching to the choir. Jon (and anyone else who doesn't know what the Zeitgeist Movement is), in a nutshell:

The Zeitgeist Movement is a global nonprofit organization founded in 2008. It advocates the abolition of money and private property, and promotes a global socioeconomic system in which all resources would be equitably and commonly shared. According to the movement, such a system would increase social equality and sustainability. The Zeitgeist Movement also believes resource allocation can be managed by computerized systems and most manual labor can be fully automated. —Wikipedia

I actually think this is more or less exactly what is going to happen. And I think I'll live to see it. If I live to be in my eighties, which given trends in health and longevity seems likely, I think the world will be a very different place than the one in which we were born.

[Redezra]

Two things:

1. Zeitgeist is mired in conspiratorial bullshit. The world is not out to get you, people are just out for themselves.

2. Venus Project is based on what is considered to be the only way to overcome the shortcomings of money, so... that I'm ok with.

3. Fusion will destroy the economy. Free energy?

[ᗅᗺᗷᗅ]

I am not interested in their conspiracy theories. But I believe we are moving toward a world very much as they advocate.

Free energy might not be fusion. It could be microwave transmission of energy from orbiting solar panels. It could be nanotechnology. It could be what Ray Kurzweil calls the Singularity. But whatever it is, technological advances will make it happen, and maybe more quickly than one might expect. Some observers think we could be seeing the beginnings of it now, and that in as few as ten years we may be in the midst of a technological and social revolution.

I don't know about ten years. But I believe that it will be over, and a new and better "order" will have been established, by the time I die.

If I die. But that's a separate conversation.

[The Dark Empire]

Humans are rational and therefore economical. Everything is scarce therefore scarce goods need to be rationed out. Rationing is based on a rationing criterion. That criterion happens to be wealth. If we remove money the goods will need to ne rationed out another way. Removing money will not solve the world's problems but make worse ones. What if everything was first come first serve. Most of us would be dead. PV money is a neccesary evil which requires a just hand to guide. Not everyone is the same though and some people become greedy.

[PrinceVegeta]

Humans are rational and therefore economical. Everything is scarce therefore scarce goods need to be rationed out. Rationing is based on a rationing criterion. That criterion happens to be wealth. If we remove money the goods will need to ne rationed out another way. Removing money will not solve the world's problems but make worse ones. What if everything was first come first serve. Most of us would be dead. PV money is a neccesary evil which requires a just hand to guide. Not everyone is the same though and some people become greedy.

Money is totally unnecessary, and the evil is why it is what it is. I mean if we all worked on one currency and one "Global Bank" then sure, but no ones gonna fucking do that because everyone gives a shit about culture more than SURVIVING.

[The Dark Empire]

Dude do you think we live in a perfect world we have unlimited stuff so we don't need to worry about value of anything. We don't. Human want will always exceed what is available. And if we all had one currency we would have little incentive to conserve it. Think about this. Everyone in this alliance shares a car. No one owns it but we all share it. Are you telling me that would take as much care for that car as you do your new car which only belongs to you. No. Whether you believe it or not you would not scrub out the soda stain I left in the alliance car but you would clean the stain if it was in your private car.

You can throw about things like yay no money world peace but in doing so you forget a lot of important details. Man I wish gas was free. I wish I didn't have to work so hard to get when the rich kid buys it easily. But if it was free we would run out very soon. We need money friend.

Also fallacy of composition. What is good for the individual is not good for the group as a whole. Think about that

[PrinceVegeta]

Dude do you think we live in a perfect world we have unlimited stuff so we don't need to worry about value of anything. We don't. Human want will always exceed what is available. And if we all had one currency we would have little incentive to conserve it. Think about this. Everyone in this alliance shares a car. No one owns it but we all share it. Are you telling me that would take as much care for that car as you do your new car which only belongs to you. No. Whether you believe it or not you would not scrub out the soda stain I left in the alliance car but you would clean the stain if it was in your private car.

You can throw about things like yay no money world peace but in doing so you forget a lot of important details. Man I wish gas was free. I wish I didn't have to work so hard to get when the rich kid buys it easily. But if it was free we would run out very soon. We need money friend.

Also fallacy of composition. What is good for the individual is not good for the group as a whole. Think about that

Unfortunately, you didn't watch the video.

It's called strategic access my friend. It's controlling how much is distributed, used, and how long it would be needed based on the need at hand.

And of course, people want and need different things, sometimes needs change. So based on the need of that need, or demand, you make only enough to supply that demand and if it increases or decreases you make the according changes.

Don't debate me, until you watch the video.

[King Biscuit]

But if it was free we would run out very soon. We need money friend.

Hence that wonderful term of "sustainability".
We live in a finite world, as you have previously stated.
If we, as a species, want to survive to the next millennium, we have to figure out how to make what we have last a LOT longer.
This idea however clashes fiercely with the current consumption economy paradigm we live under now.
We measure the health of economies and nations by how much they consume. In order to keep "growing" we have to consume more and more.
This is impossible, as we have determined that this world only has so much stuff.
When it's gone, it's gone.

So if there is nothing left, what do you buy with your fiat monies?
It's worthless.

[Redezra]

Yeah, it'll be interesting when we run into the end of fossil fuel resources in the next century, I'll put it that way.


However, PV, Zeitgeist is a conspiratorial film (trilogy). It's waaaay too far into the "ERMAGHERD IT'S ALL A PLOT". It's not a plot.

What we need to do as a species is either invent space tech now. Or, lose the growth economy.

[PrinceVegeta]

Idc about who they are, I care about the information, and most of it (The parts I cared about) made sense. And try inventing space tech in this kind of economy. You have no money to spend to pay people to research it, build it, or man it. Plus you gotta buy resources.

So yeah, I'll go with your second option. lol

[King Biscuit]

Zeitgeist is a conspiratorial film (trilogy). It's waaaay too far into the "ERMAGHERD IT'S ALL A PLOT". It's not a plot.

The first two, I will admit, yes, very conspiracy-esque.
Moving Forward however, at least in my eyes, is not as such.

A big yes on the space tech.
NASA gets 1/2 a penny per every tax dollar.
I think they should get five whole cents if not more.

[The Dark Empire]

Sounds like a nice idea that will never work unless we become a utopia and the government regulates everything because we are not good enough to do it ourselves. Frankly I think its nice to buy into this stuff but don't put all your eggs in the basket. Communism works on paper. This sounds like communism to me. See how the USSR did with a communist economy.

Commies