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#1 ᗅᗺᗷᗅ

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Posted 23 January 2016 - 06:47 PM

Republicans

Current polling in Iowa has Donald Trump well ahead, with Ted Cruz in second place and Marco Rubio in third (37-26-14%, respectively, in the most recent CNN/ORC poll). Being that these same basic results have been produced independently by several polls, and that these trends have been followed closely for weeks, it is reasonably safe to assume that this could be the final result when the votes are counted.

 

Much will depend on Donald Trump's GOTV operation. Some sources have characterized it as highly effective, using an entertaining video to teach supporters how to caucus (caucuses aren't like standard voting; it's a lengthy and sometimes complicated process that generally only appeals to the most motivated voters). Other sources have been skeptical that this process will produce results. Ted Cruz, on the other hand, has a much-ballyhooed "ground game," which despite the overuse of the buzzword term, is nevertheless a crucially important part of any campaign. If Trump's operation is not all it has been made out to be, Ted Cruz could win. I would not be at all surprised if that happens.

 

But at this point I would not be surprised by a Trump win, either. Obnoxious and embarrassing though he is, the man is not stupid. And he can certainly afford to hire good people (although I would think his destructive personality traits would quickly drive most serious professionals away). If he does win, and if it is because he drew in new voters, expect the pros to take a very close look at Team Trump's methods.

 

So let's assume the polls are right, and Trump, Cruz, and Rubio get the "three tickets" out of Iowa. What does that mean? Well, Trump will probably win New Hampshire, if the polls there are right. Kasich is doing surprisingly well in New Hampshire, his polls steadily rising there as a result of his relentless campaigning. Right now the polls in NH have it at Trump winning, Kasich coming in second, and Cruz and Rubio slugging it out for third. The numbers are about 32-13-11-10% (Trump-Kasich-Cruz-Rubio). Since Cruz and Rubio are statistically tied, their winning in Iowa might not give either of them the momentum they might hope for. I would say that if Rubio somehow managed to eke out a second place showing in Iowa, this would be the biggest potential boost either of them could get. Also, Rubio's numbers seem to be going up in NH, while Cruz's are going down. The party establishment is DEAD SET against Cruz, so they would be more likely to support Rubio. Also, as a local, I can tell you that Rubio's "softer" conservatism is much more likely to play in the Granite State than Cruz's evangelical puritanism. Given all of this, I'm going to predict that the NH primary results have Trump winning, Kasich second, and Rubio third.

Where does this leave us? I think anyone who does not place in top three in either Iowa or New Hampshire will soon drop out, with the possible exceptions of Rand Paul and Jeb Bush. Paul because he is an ideological purist on a quixotic quest, and Bush because he has enough money to ride it out and hope the "establishment track" to the nomination doesn't get locked up by Kasich or Rubio. Chris Christie, Ben Carson, Carly Fiorina, Mike Huckabee, and Rick Santorum simply will not be able to keep going — the money will dry up, and it only gets more expensive after New Hampshire. Barring an unforeseen surge, I do not believe that Kasich will have the wherewithal to capitalize on any NH results, at least not for long. I think it will come down to Rubio and Bush for the establishment track, and in that situation it could go either way.

 


 

Democrats

 

Clintonland is in full panic mode after the rise of Bernie Sanders. Right now the polls in Iowa have Clinton with a slight edge (about 47-43%) in overall poll aggregates, but slightly behind in the most recent polls. And, as I mentioned above, caucuses are a different kind of animal. They tend to attract the most zealous believers on both sides. For the Republicans this means evangelical conservatives and for Democrats this tends to mean hippie-dippy liberals. You know, Bernie Sanders' base? Yeah. Clintonland is right to be worried.

 

Because Bernie is going to eat her alive in New Hampshire. He is from neighboring Vermont and well known (and well-loved) in the Granite State. He has a double-digit lead there, in one case by as much as 60 points (probably an outlier, but 20 points is not unreasonable). If he wins Iowa AND New Hampshire, well, the inevitable candidate starts to look a lot less inevitable. Kind of like 2008. This is essentially the chain of events I prognosticated about months ago on these very boards. 

 

After NH for the Democrats come Nevada (another caucus) and then South Carolina. Clinton is well ahead in both places, but two losses could change that. There is reason to believe that the political playing field in Nevada (a caucus state in which labor is strong) favors Sanders. South Carolina is another beast, and it's difficult to see how Sanders breaks through there. But momentum can change quickly, especially with a couple of wins under your belt. If SC were to feel the Bern it would probably be indicative of a larger (and welcome) political revolution in this country.





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#2 Redezra

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Posted 27 January 2016 - 01:15 AM

I still think Clinton will win, and I don't think it will be above board.



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Posted 27 January 2016 - 11:23 AM

I still think Clinton will win, and I don't think it will be above board.

 

Are you saying you think she will cheat? Because that's not easy to do in an American election (although not impossible). There were allegations of cheating on the GOP side in Florida in 2000 and Ohio in 2004, but in both cases there were mitigating circumstances (very close voter tallies, a candidate's brother being governor of the state in question, voting machine irregularities, etc.) and nothing was ever proven.



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#4 Redezra

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Posted 27 January 2016 - 08:07 PM

Oh not in the full on election. But I would not be surprised if votes in states were carefully tailored so that Clinton beats Sanders. I believe money buys governments, and being that Sanders is outside that regime, he can't win.



#5 ᗅᗺᗷᗅ

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Posted 27 January 2016 - 08:32 PM

He definitely has an uphill climb. And she will definitely outspend him. But in our system there's nothing illegal about that, for the most part.

 


 

Interesting development on the Republican side: Jeb Bush is now in second place in the most recent New Hampshire poll, which has it as...

 

Trump 35%

Bush 18%

Kasich 14%

 

Now, this was a fairly small sample size, so it could just be an outlier. But there have been other indications lately that Jeb's numbers were moving up in the Granite State. If these were the final results it would be bad news for Cruz, and probably doom for Rubio.



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#6 Redezra

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Posted 27 January 2016 - 08:47 PM

Woo, come on Bush v Clinton II!

 

BLAST FROM THE PAAAAST



#7 the rebel

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Posted 28 January 2016 - 03:29 AM

I think the Bush's are going through devolution rather than evolution, as each one seems to gets more stupid than the other.

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#8 KiWi

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Posted 28 January 2016 - 06:12 PM

Rubio is VP material anyway. The better he does, the better his prospects/future bids will be. But for VP. Nothing else.

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Posted 29 January 2016 - 11:33 PM

Rubio sees this as his shot at the establishment track to the nomination. He's been working Iowa hard, and his numbers have been rising, while Cruz's (and Trump's) have been flat. Coming off the debate Cruz is in a negative-feedback media cycle, while Rubio is in a positive-feedback media cycle, and with the Iowa caucuses on Monday this is not good news for Cruz. Best case for Rubio: he cobbles together a coalition of Mitt Romney voters and some Cruz supporters and Trump's operation is not able to turn his huge rallies into votes, Rubio wins. This is unlikely. More likely he would come in second to Trump, which would be almost as good as a win, at least from his point of view. If Cruz is relegated to third place his campaign will have been dealt a serious blow. I would say there is a decent chance of this happening.

 

Bush has been ahead in some NH polls, meaning the top three finishers there could be Trump-Bush-Rubio or Trump-Rubio-Bush. What would that mean? A lot more campaigning. They're going to slug this out for a while. And remember, everyone who rises to the top must face Trump in a boss fight. So far none of them has beaten him.



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#10 KiWi

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Posted 01 February 2016 - 05:16 PM

"Boss fight"

Hilarious.

Jorost, when will you rise up and take on the Donald?

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Posted 01 February 2016 - 09:25 PM

Wow, unexpected results!

 

Cruz 28%

Trump 24%

Rubio 23%

 

(99% of vote in.)

 

The big surprise is Rubio, who appears to have siphoned off a significant number of Trump's voters. Exit polls suggest that this is at least in part because of concerns about electability. As I write this CNN is reporting that Rubio is making a run at second place. How will this affect the race? Is the Trump bubble burst?

Interestinger and interestinger.

 

Meanwhile Clinton is just slightly ahead of Sanders, 50% to 49%. While it is statistically possible for Sanders to eke out a win, that seems unlikely. So a narrow victory for Clinton. Sanders is going to spin it as a victory and cruise to victory in New Hampshire, but ultimately his problem is the same as it's always been: South Carolina (and the South in general). Once you get out of states that are overwhelmingly white, Sanders does not perform well. Clinton almost certainly has it locked up.

Oh, and Martin O'Malley is out. Big surprise.



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#12 Allant

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Posted 01 February 2016 - 09:56 PM

Cruz 28% Gross

Trump 24% Was wanting double that %

Rubio 23% Gross

Bush fail%



#13 HordeLorde

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Posted 01 February 2016 - 10:11 PM

Bernie will win Iowa just watch.

And Trump is gonna be in 3rd by the end of the night. ;)



#14 Manoka

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Posted 01 February 2016 - 10:14 PM

I just think it's funny people are basing this all on cock-ess's. 

 

I mean, it sounds like a deranged D&D monster or a poorly made 1970's porn flick. 

 

 

"The Iowa Cockassess: Beware!"

 

Also, it sounds like cock-asses. 

 

 

"THE COCK-ASSES WILL DETERMINE WHO WINS THE RACE!"

 

At least they got the most polite term for our presidential candidates I've seen, though.


Edited by Manoka, 01 February 2016 - 10:15 PM.


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#15 Redezra

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Posted 01 February 2016 - 10:37 PM

Wow, unexpected results!

 

Cruz 28%

Trump 24%

Rubio 23%

 

(99% of vote in.)

 

The big surprise is Rubio, who appears to have siphoned off a significant number of Trump's voters. Exit polls suggest that this is at least in part because of concerns about electability. As I write this CNN is reporting that Rubio is making a run at second place. How will this affect the race? Is the Trump bubble burst?

Interestinger and interestinger.

 

Meanwhile Clinton is just slightly ahead of Sanders, 50% to 49%. While it is statistically possible for Sanders to eke out a win, that seems unlikely. So a narrow victory for Clinton. Sanders is going to spin it as a victory and cruise to victory in New Hampshire, but ultimately his problem is the same as it's always been: South Carolina (and the South in general). Once you get out of states that are overwhelmingly white, Sanders does not perform well. Clinton almost certainly has it locked up.

Oh, and Martin O'Malley is out. Big surprise.

 

The republicans have dissapointed me. Nowhere near enough lols.



#16 ᗅᗺᗷᗅ

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Posted 01 February 2016 - 11:11 PM

Yeah, I have to admit I'm a little disappointed. I wanted to see a Trump blowout. But it looks like voters got spooked at the last minute by the idea that he is unelectable. More than three-quarters of Republican caucus goers voted against Donald Trump. 

 

Now, we have yet to see how Trump's unorthodox approach to campaigning will play out in a more traditional voting state like New Hampshire (caucuses are strange beasts). It seems like he might do better there than in Iowa, where the evangelical factor comes more into play. But Rubio will have some momentum moving forward now, not to mention a smaller field (Huckabee dropped out, Carson has all but done so, and others may follow suit before NH votes). If voter nervousness over Trump's electability continues, Rubio could stand to benefit in a big way.



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#17 HordeLorde

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Posted 02 February 2016 - 01:30 AM

Martin O'Malley suspended his campaign.....tis a sad day..... he wasnt  that bad was he guys?

Mean while over at Tribe Hefalump Elimanation Council Meeting....  "Mike Huckabee, the tribe has spoken."



#18 the rebel

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Posted 02 February 2016 - 02:08 AM

...and that ladies and gentleman is why I think polls are an outdated model.

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#19 ᗅᗺᗷᗅ

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Posted 02 February 2016 - 07:29 AM

Actually, polls accurately predict the final results an overwhelming amount of the time. Iowa is known as a particularly difficult place to poll because of the unusual nature of caucuses. People don't like polls because we don't like to think that we're so easily predictable and quantifiable, but it's true. A well-conducted poll is usually right to within a few percentage points. That's why a guy like Nate Silver, who analyzes polling trends, can accurately predict 49 out of 50 states (in 2008) or even all 50 states (2012).

 

Still, it's nice when polls are wrong because it reminds us that there are still x-factors in these races. 



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#20 Redezra

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Posted 02 February 2016 - 09:24 PM

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand Clinton won by a hair. Which is what I'd expect tbh. That's how you stealthily rig things, so it's believable.




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