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The Second American Revolution


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#1 ᗅᗺᗷᗅ

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Posted 08 February 2016 - 02:57 PM

Missive from the future: The 2016 presidential campaign was a major turning point in American history. Voters, fed up with the corruption and dysfunction of Washington, sent a powerful message by choosing Donald Trump for the Republican nomination and Bernie Sanders for the Democratic nomination. As promised, former NYC mayor Michael Bloomberg entered the race as an independent, hoping to appeal to moderates. But the presence of yet another billionaire in race did not sit well with voters, and Bernie Sanders won with a plurality of the popular vote, but a large electoral majority.

 

What would happen? This is not an outlandish scenario. In fact, based on current polling, at least, it would seem that there is a very good chance that this is exactly what is going to occur. If, like me, you instinctively recoil from the idea as being unrealistic, stop and ask yourself why. Because nothing like it has ever happened? Maybe we just live in interesting times.

If Bernie Sanders becomes the Democratic nominee, the Right — regardless of nominee — is going to lose its mind. Socialist. Communist. Baby killer. Sodomite. Satanist. Child Molester. To a large swath of the electorate, these things are indistinguishable from one another. Sanders and his surrogates will try to explain it, of course, and they might even do a good job. Sanders has a way of putting things succinctly, and Elizabeth Warren (a likely VP choice, but who would undoubtedly be involved in the campaign regardless) is very good at explaining things in a plainspoken way that makes sense. Some people might be swayed. But a sizable subset of conservatives will remain unmoved. To say their position is based on emotion would be a gross oversimplification. For many it is a matter of self-identification. It represents a way of life, and a vision of America, that is dying. So-called progressives like to joke about how backwards such people are, how old-fashioned and hopelessly out of touch. All of these are accurate and valid criticisms. But they fail to take into account what it must feel like to be on the other side. The world is changing around you faster than you can follow, and every day it seems like the rules change. To you, some things are just wrong; it's not a matter of logic or reason, it's simply how it is. These Americans — and we should never forget that they are our fellow Americans, like it or not — are generally older and less sophisticated. They don't use the internet as much, they are less likely to have a smartphone, or even a cellphone. In many cases religion forms the centerpiece of their lives.

Some proportion of the überconservative set will threaten outright secession/revolution if the Socialist Sanders is elected. Never mind that most of them probably couldn't spell "socialist," much less understand it. These are old, primal emotions, culture-memory going back over half a century. 

 

If Bernie Sanders were elected president, especially if it is without a popular mandate, as in the example above, there will be unrest in some quarters of far-right conservo-world. I think there would be Oregon-like occupations, probably better organized and coordinated, particularly in red states and conservative parts of the country. Would some states outright secede? I think that's a distinct possibility. Kansas, Texas, Utah, and Idaho are probably the most likely suspects. Hell, there are rumblings in these places now about secession.

 

Maybe this is It. The It we've been waiting for. The It we've been building toward for lo these past thirty years. Maybe this is the final, epic battle between Left and Right, the physical culmination of the Culture Wars.

I kind of hope it is. But I have the luxury of being able to say that safely ensconced in the heartland of liberalism. If there's going to be unrest, it won't be in Boston. If there's going to be bloodshed, it won't be in the Northeast. The South and Mountain West, the Bible Belt, places where conservative politics are strong — these will be the places where the fight is carried out. 
 

One by one they drop out. Some band together to form a new confederation, called the "Real" United States of America, with Donald Trump as its titular president. Utah does its own crazy Mormon thing. In a year President Sanders finds himself governing a rump nation consisting of the West Coast, the Northeast and Chesapeake Bay, Industrial Midwest, and Great Lakes regions. Kansas has declared itself a Christian Republic and Florida has gone off on its own, finally a banana republic in fact as well as presentation.

 

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I'd be okay with this.





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#2 Allant

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Posted 08 February 2016 - 05:15 PM

Secession in the USA was settled already and in a rather dramatic fashion, I don't think we are close to that yet. For all the political divide we have here we just bitch and moan a lot but that is about it. The Oregon thing is pretty minor and pretty sad really. We are in far better shape than a lot of neighbors down south. 



#3 Manoka

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Posted 08 February 2016 - 05:29 PM

This doesn't sound all that likely. 

 

It's fun to think about to some extent, but the millions who would die in the civil war is not fun to think about. Or when Russia decides it's the biggest kid on the block, China etc. and start to take over their neighbors. 

 

Also, I don't think too many people give that many fucks about Sanders. In their mind he's just as socialist as Obama was and not everyone rioted and ate babies. 

 

 

Not to mention believing you'll be magically abstained from the violence is naive at best. It's the hatred of Bernie Sanders that would draw violence against him, right? That means the North would be attacked to prevent him from taking hold of the country, so we'd likely see it the other way around. Presumably. 

 

I think if Trump was elected that would be more likely to cause a civil war, which is also not a "revolution". 


Edited by Manoka, 08 February 2016 - 05:36 PM.


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#4 ᗅᗺᗷᗅ

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Posted 08 February 2016 - 09:50 PM

Oh, I don't think it's really close to this. I do think there would be some Oregon-like incidents if Bernie Sanders were nominated/elected. But mostly I was just playing speculative history.

 

Then again, who'd have thought we'd get this far?



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#5 Redezra

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Posted 08 February 2016 - 11:45 PM

Pshhhhhhhhhh

 

Vote Zombie Hitler! He'll get rid of them Islams! He's strongly Christian, conservative, very right wing, and has come back from the grave like Jesus. Who can vote against Jesus? Nobody? Then vote for Zombie Hitler!



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Posted 09 February 2016 - 09:07 AM

Pfft. We're Americans. It's gotta be Zombie Reagan.

 

zombie_reagan_revisited_by_olasdcrazy-d3



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#7 Lord Draculea

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Posted 09 February 2016 - 10:26 AM

As an outsiser who doesn't directly follow the campaign, I've tried to stay out of this. But should I understand that, in your "speculative history", America's Reagan is some kind of historical equivalent of Germany's Hitler? I'm beginning to wonder what kind of "revolution" the Americans are really invited to join...

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Posted 09 February 2016 - 11:09 AM

Lol. Well things got out of hand. It was less a Hitler/Reagan comparison than a zombie thing. Zombie Reagan has been a meme since the Onion ran a satirical article about it a few years ago. :)

 

As for the chances of outright revolution, I would say they are not high — but they are also not zero. There is a lot of unrest and unhappiness in this country, as the last few years have demonstrated. Everything from the Tea Party movement to Black Lives Matter can be traced to the same basic root cause: the breakdown of the American political system. Bernie Sanders likes to characterize his movement as a "revolution," and maybe in political terms it will be. That remains to be seen. If it were to pick up steam I think you'd see a lot of angry, over-the-top reactions from the far right. I still believe that Sanders' chances of winning the Democratic nomination are miniscule, but if he were to do so, no doubt the anger and vitriol would be amped up. And if were actually elected, there would absolutely be individuals and groups that would take extreme — and undoubtedly armed — action.



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#9 Allant

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Posted 09 February 2016 - 05:42 PM

There is a lot of Reagan worship cause he was president during the glory years of the 80s. Which I think, is the time period that is referred to in all the "Make America great again", or "Restore America" etc etc. Or maybe that was the 50s? Or that he was the latest "good" Republican president. 

 

 

 

The south shall rise again?????


Edited by Allant, 09 February 2016 - 05:43 PM.


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Posted 09 February 2016 - 06:03 PM

The truth is that neither the '50s nor the '80s were as idyllic as sepia-toned Republican memories would have you believe. I think what they are after is more the myth of those times.

 

I love the phrase "The South shall rise again." When exactly did it rise the first time? I assume they mean the Civil War, when the North laid the smackdown on them. You wouldn't think they'd want to do that again.



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#11 Manoka

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Posted 09 February 2016 - 06:06 PM

Unfortunately there's also a bit of economics involved. Texas alone has a large chunk of the nation's oil, food, and a good share of it's industrial product, which are more important alone than having 10% of the GDP. It's one of the few major ports in the U.S. and two international airports. 

 

California is also very important in terms of food, but it gets it's water from the midwest, being a desert otherwise (especially in the current drought). If cut off from them, California would perish virtually overnight, which would also mean all the state's that rely on their food would drop. That means most of New York, the Northeast and the like. 

 

 

Due to geographical constraints, California and those dependent on them would begin suffering at the most fundamental level, which is food, water and basic manufacturing. Much of the manufacturing is centered in the south, midwest and northern areas of the country, such as Michigan or Illinois. While they might team up with the North Eastern people, given the sudden shock something like this would have to things like, the stock market, the various service based businesses and banks, they might be reluctant to team up once this area is starting to shut down. People would panic and leave the cities in droves, afraid they wouldn't have the resources to continue to survive. Lacking the farms and water sources necessary to survive in the city without the benefit of that coming from the more rural areas.

 

All the while during the first bits of the war places like Texas, the midwest and the South are all growing stronger, while the North is losing it's people and it's most basic support. If any kind of counterattack is launched, the North will fail. They won't have the resources to defend themselves, the military bases or the military forces. Most of the bases being concentrated in the south, even Washington D.C. 

 

 

No, I see the liberals losing their shit if Trump is elected. Because the Republicans have dealt with crazy after crazy but the Democrats? They haven't even begun to know what crazy is yet. The Republicans design the Affordable Care Act and then Obama copies it, changes a few fundamentally important things and then puts his name on it calling it "Obamacare". Then the Democrats accuse the Republicans of not wanting anyone to have good healthcare despite knowing full and well that they stole the idea from them. That's fucking insane. If trump gets elected the crazies will go crazy and that, right there will cause problems. It's the Democrats who want this violent revolution because they believe everything is corrupt yet giving the government more power makes sense (not like that's self contradictory), and believe that despite having no military prowess or understanding of economics and the like they'll win the war because they have the fighting spirit and believe they're the best at everything. And that right there is more likely to cause all this than Bernie Sanders, who nobody views as much different from the other democrats. Only other democrats think he's some amazing new guy. Same old tune to the Republicans. "Make big promises you can't live up to (like Obama) and everyone will elect you anyways".

 

I mean, I like Obama, I like Bernie Sanders. But if we're being honest? It's the arrogance, stupidity and self-contradictory nature of the democrats that's going to make something like this happen. I don't even like Republicans but where as they are wrong every now and again, the liberals go flying off the deep end. They're fucking nuts. I mean you KNOW that Obama stole the idea from Republicans and yet you want to say that the Republicans don't want you to have healthcare. How can you believe that? You think the whole government is corrupt and out stealing oil and all that but then you want to increase their control in your every day lives, what you can eat, where your healthcare comes from, how much money you're giving them etc. You can believe both extremes, at both sides at the same time. And whether we analyze the value of those extremes or not, what we can all agree on is that believing both, is in and of itself insane. "The government is corrupt, so I will elect Bernie Sanders, who will increase the Taxes and power of the federal government!" Smart idea? Looks like 2 seconds worth of thought wasn't put in to this. 

 

 

That's before you break down things like the assault weapon's ban and how less than 2% of crimes are committed with them or how the ban itself is banning things like adjustable stocks and barrel shrouds. 

 

Before you even enter in to the policies and try to break them down on so many levels about their absolute absurdity. Somehow they manage to get things exactly backwards. And what I've come to realize is that they're being peddled to believe both extremes at the same time. Pretty bonkers if you ask me. At least someone who says "The government is corrupt, so I'm going to reduce the impact in the average citizen's lives!" is being logical, even if I disagree. But Bernie Sanders? It's the worst position to take.


Edited by Manoka, 09 February 2016 - 06:25 PM.


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#12 Redezra

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Posted 09 February 2016 - 08:26 PM

Oh man, that just reminds me of the time my friends and I played Microscope, and we combined American politics, the Australian political system, and the Holy Roman Empire, to have President Baraka Obama and Anti-President Zombie Reagan.

 

Fun times~




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