57 replies to this topic

[Haflinger]

Sanders would have a shot at affecting the controlling vested interests because he's not one of them. Trump and Clinton both are in the elite clique already.

[Redezra]

Sanders can't.

 

Nobody can.

 

What he could do would be making them pay for the rest of the nation for a while. They'd still stay entrenched at the top.

[Shokkou]

You know what you have to have to get someone to do something, including pay for things? Control. Exactly the thing you've just admitted he can't have.

[Redezra]

[Shokkou]

I regret not making that image a link to something, but I was hasty and didn't think of it at the time. Oh well.

[Haflinger]

I said "affect" which is pretty weak. If he can't affect them, he can't make them pay for things. Make up your mind

[Redezra]

Whatever~ I still think he can't make meaningful change to the system, in as many as 8 years Sanders would be gone, and the country would return to the good old days of screwing itself over.

[Shokkou]

I said "affect" which is pretty weak. If he can't affect them, he can't make them pay for things. Make up your mind

I wasn't even responding to you. I was less in disagreement with your statement than Redezra's in that instance.

 

Whatever~ I still think he can't make meaningful change to the system, in as many as 8 years Sanders would be gone, and the country would return to the good old days of screwing itself over.

It never would have left them.

[ᗅᗺᗷᗅ]

Presidents can certainly make meaningful changes, but they are most effective when they capture the zeitgeist and respond to it effectively. Think of someone like an FDR or an Abraham Lincoln. Sanders won't be president, so the point is moot insofar as he is concerned. But I do wonder whether we are approaching another historical "zeitgeist moment."

[Redezra]

I feel it's heading in for a repeat of the 1920s/30s.

 

The real question is, where are the people standing against right wing fascism?

[King Biscuit]

I feel it's heading in for a repeat of the 1920s/30s.

 

The real question is, where are the people standing against right wing fascism?

 

Nowhere.

[Shokkou]

They're too busy getting their hair dyed neon colors and complaining about things that don't exist.

[Haflinger]

Lincoln's a poor example. He wanted to preserve the status quo, but events spiralled out of his control and he was forced into change.

[Shokkou]

Lincoln's a poor example.

QFT

[ᗅᗺᗷᗅ]

Lincoln's a poor example. He wanted to preserve the status quo, but events spiralled out of his control and he was forced into change.

 

That happens a lot. Obama wasn't really all that enthusiastic about same-sex marriage until he was pushed into supporting it.

[Haflinger]

Yeah, true. A better example than either of them really is FDR.

[ᗅᗺᗷᗅ]

Right. And people forget that both Lincoln and FDR were highly controversial and polarizing figures in their times. It was only in retrospect that they achieved the legendary status they enjoy today.

[Shokkou]

Lincoln is still (rightly so) considered an asshole by people with more than a cursory understanding of his presidency.