74 replies to this topic

[Manoka]

We still have organizations like the FDA, EPA, which don't really help out corporations. I mean they catch these people failing basic inspections and such all the time, it gets reported to the news, stuff like that. I mean, we hear about how, there could have been some type of bribery, or lobbying, or such like that, but it was exposed, these people were kicked out etc.

 

Why pay money for lobbyists, campaigns, bribes, if they just owned the governmeant? I mean they keep trying and keep failing. These organizations and their general efforts wouldn't exist; we're eating pretty clean food, water, n stuff, you've got carbon monoxide laced beef scandals and such exposed all the time, doesn't look like they're just letting them get away with it.

[ᗅᗺᗷᗅ]

Wait, why am I the leader of the corporate elites?  I don't have any money!  

[Redezra]

No no, I didn't put a comma in the right place. You're the glorious leader of the revolution~ :3

[ᗅᗺᗷᗅ]

Oh, okay.  

[Manoka]

But you'd need to know a lot about firearms, weapons, tactics, the tactics of the government, the best way to fight them, the best way to create a force, etc.

[Haflinger]

All of the machinery of government bureaucracy indirectly helps the large corporations. In an environment where in order to get anything done you need to go through red tape, you need resources in order to be able to run a business.
 
Which is why you get small businesses in places like Iceland, which normal right-wing thought would conclude is a hostile environment. No red tape. It doesn't matter if it's right-wing red tape like the FDA or EDGAR or left-wing red tape like DOL workplace safety regulations; what matters is there's always one more form to fill out, and eventually you just give up and need to hire a lawyer to start a business.

[Manoka]

But we can't just let businesses do what they want; if we just let anyone sell food that wasn't inspected, clean, potentially poisoned, without any kind of processing, review, or analysis, then a lot more accidents or problems would be resulting.

[Haflinger]

Yes, but when you have an enormous bureaucracy monitoring those kinds of issues then you have mounds of red tape to deal with it. In Iceland, the nation's population is 321,857, while the population of the US is 316,457,000, or almost exactly a thousand times larger. Keeping track of Icelandic restaurants can be done without forty-five different forms filled out in triplicate. If you see what I mean.

[ᗅᗺᗷᗅ]

The other thing that corporations have figured out is that it's a lot easier to influence state and local governments, which is where much of the decision-making that directly affects them is made.

[Manoka]

What does that have to do with anything?

 

I don't really know a lot about Iceland's food inspection program, but it's typically more than forms, like idk, actual inspections and such.

 

 

Forms sound easy.

Edited by Manoka, 15 August 2013 - 09:42 AM.

[ᗅᗺᗷᗅ]

Bureaucracy is not the worst thing in the world.  In fact, if that's the worst you have to deal with from your government, you're leading a pretty charmed life.

[Haflinger]

heh

 

I was just talking about the economic effects. Of course there are other problems with modern huge government, but really, dealing with the enormous confused bureaucracy which sometimes pulls in three different directions at once is the main economic problem.

 

Food inspection is a lot easier when your food inspectors know all the restaurant owners on a first-name basis. "Oh, that's Sven's place. Let's go see if he cleaned up the oven yet."

[Justavictim82]

We still have organizations like the FDA, EPA, which don't really help out corporations. I mean they catch these people failing basic inspections and such all the time, it gets reported to the news, stuff like that. I mean, we hear about how, there could have been some type of bribery, or lobbying, or such like that, but it was exposed, these people were kicked out etc.

Why pay money for lobbyists, campaigns, bribes, if they just owned the governmeant? I mean they keep trying and keep failing. These organizations and their general efforts wouldn't exist; we're eating pretty clean food, water, n stuff, you've got carbon monoxide laced beef scandals and such exposed all the time, doesn't look like they're just letting them get away with it.

This whole statement is full of fallacies. First off, those agencies you spoke of have either be cut substanially, been weakened heavily by deregulation or both. Even when companies fail inspection or break any rules, as KB said, they smacked with a (mostly) light fine and in rare cases jailtime in a minimum security prison. They are never truly punished or made to pay for their crimes and that is why corporate crime is rampant.

Why pay money to congressmen for lobbied support? Simple, they make the laws. You pay the congressman money to ensure he passes/kills any bill you want paying for his 'reelection', he gets more terms to vote in your interest, leave congress and becomes a lobbyist making 7 figures and turns around and use their new found employer to prepetuate their financial security. It is unbelievably sad how far this country has come in the last decade starting with Bush and his cash and carry government. Perfect example: Tom Dashel did the exact same thing congress is doing now (getting payouts from lobbies to vote in their favor, including vacations and personal bankroll) less than a decade ago, gets disgraced and does jailtime. Today it is SOP and noone really gives a shit.

[Manoka]

We still have organizations like the FDA, EPA, which don't really help out corporations. I mean they catch these people failing basic inspections and such all the time, it gets reported to the news, stuff like that. I mean, we hear about how, there could have been some type of bribery, or lobbying, or such like that, but it was exposed, these people were kicked out etc.

Why pay money for lobbyists, campaigns, bribes, if they just owned the governmeant? I mean they keep trying and keep failing. These organizations and their general efforts wouldn't exist; we're eating pretty clean food, water, n stuff, you've got carbon monoxide laced beef scandals and such exposed all the time, doesn't look like they're just letting them get away with it.

This whole statement is full of fallacies. First off, those agencies you spoke of have either be cut substanially, been weakened heavily by deregulation or both. Even when companies fail inspection or break any rules, as KB said, they smacked with a (mostly) light fine and in rare cases jailtime in a minimum security prison. They are never truly punished or made to pay for their crimes and that is why corporate crime is rampant.

Why pay money to congressmen for lobbied support? Simple, they make the laws. You pay the congressman money to ensure he passes/kills any bill you want paying for his 'reelection', he gets more terms to vote in your interest, leave congress and becomes a lobbyist making 7 figures and turns around and use their new found employer to prepetuate their financial security. It is unbelievably sad how far this country has come in the last decade starting with Bush and his cash and carry government. Perfect example: Tom Dashel did the exact same thing congress is doing now (getting payouts from lobbies to vote in their favor, including vacations and personal bankroll) less than a decade ago, gets disgraced and does jailtime. Today it is SOP and noone really gives a shit.

 

But there's forced changes, which they usually comply to. Unless you're suggesting we punish them harshly anyways, in which case they'd be less likely to change.

[ᗅᗺᗷᗅ]

Tom Daschle never did jail time, Justa.  But other than that you are 100% correct.  There are very few problems with this country that would not be solved by getting private money out of politics, including banning politicians from working for lobbyists when they leave office.

[Manoka]

Tom Daschle never did jail time, Justa.  But other than that you are 100% correct.  There are very few problems with this country that would not be solved by getting private money out of politics, including banning politicians from working for lobbyists when they leave office.

 

We'd actually need intelligent behavoir.

 

I mean what's the comprehensive strategy for cheap energy in this country?

 

 

For solving our economic crisises?

 

I mean it doesn't really exist.

 

 

Even assuming they were blocking us from doing something, what is it that needs to be done?

[King Biscuit]

Tom Daschle never did jail time, Justa. But other than that you are 100% correct. There are very few problems with this country that would not be solved by getting private money out of politics, including banning politicians from working for lobbyists when they leave office.

Thus it is revealed where the Occupy movement failed.
This should have been their one goal, but hurray for the Koch brothers and corporate co-ops.
You get the money out(lets ban PACs too) and the integrity comes back.

[Manoka]

Tom Daschle never did jail time, Justa. But other than that you are 100% correct. There are very few problems with this country that would not be solved by getting private money out of politics, including banning politicians from working for lobbyists when they leave office.

Thus it is revealed where the Occupy movement failed.
This should have been their one goal, but hurray for the Koch brothers and corporate co-ops.
You get the money out(lets ban PACs too) and the integrity comes back.

 

So you're saying there was corporate integrity before the Citizens United ruling in 2010?

Edited by Manoka, 15 August 2013 - 02:22 PM.

[ᗅᗺᗷᗅ]

The Occupy movement and the Tea Party movement are the beginning, two sides of the same coin.  If they can find common cause, as workers and students did in the early 20th century to found the labor movement, the corporate oligarchy is in trouble.  They know this, which is why they work so hard to keep people divided.

[Manoka]

The tea party... oh forget it.