713 replies to this topic

[Thrash]

I saw somewhere that they are now trying to say that Putin is behind ISIS too.

[Redezra]

Well, I suppose he could be, but he doesn't support islamy... dudes... so he probably isn't.

[Manoka]

Well, I suppose he could be, but he doesn't support islamy... dudes... so he probably isn't.

Well, there's Syria and Iran so, and now ISIS is breaking off from Al Qeada so it's a different group, but idk. 

 

Since they sell guns to everyone it's indirect in any case. 

[Thrash]

Since they sell guns to everyone it's indirect in any case. 

 

lol

 

and we give guns to people for free to use against us and their own people.

[Thrash]

Looks like the plane getting shot down made the mainstream.

 

http://www.reuters.c...N0EP08420140614

[the rebel]

and now ISIS is breaking off from Al Qeada so it's a different group, but idk. 

 

Al Qaeda disowned them ages ago because of them being too extreme...that's saying something.

[Manoka]

lol

 

and we give guns to people for free to use against us and their own people.

A handful of ended up on the wrong side, but this is rather rare. xP

[the rebel]

A handful of ended up on the wrong side, but this is rather rare. xP

             

[Thrash]

Putin orders surprise drills to check combat readiness of central Russia forces

[Manoka]

 

 

Your missing the point, in a stand off between US and Russia in Russia, ignoring their airforce. It would be a massive challenge for America to gain air supremacy due to the high tech SAM's alone...

 

Which was the whole point of my comment most previous wars the SAM's were either dated at the time or non existant, so coming down like a hammer on them was a walk in the park due to gaining air supremacy easily. Russia has some of the most advanced SAM's in the world, so coming down like a hammer and gaining air supremacy easily...is just living in cloud coo coo land.

The problem with their SAM missiles is that they're all radar based. 

 

We not only have the best stealth technology in the world that basically renders radar useless, but we are now mass producing hundreds if not thousands of multirole stealth fighter/bombers, like the F-35 and F-22. Meaning we can more or less ignore their missiles, which are liable to be the first to be targeted. Since it also blocks infrared very well (the infrared signature can drop to almost nothing for a few minutes) and UV, they more or less don't have much to target us with. Comparatively, Russia's stealth capabilities are rather poor, and their tank upgrades more or less ended in failure, meaning they're left with, basically, some revamped T-72's. 

 

 

The biggest threat from Russia will be their Spetsnaz, but their leadership has been so incompetent in the past when deploying them (as evident by the poor activities in Georgia, Checyna, and even Afghanistan) and their army is generally worse than the U.S. so, we've got them beat there, too. The Spetsnaz weren't given coordinated assaults, air support or artillery, and were often fed false information and had their missions planned for them, to a point where many Spetsnaz were basically sent on suicide missions just due to poor planning, no matter how good they were individually as soldiers. 

 

Once again, proven more or less to be right. They have bad logistics and their governmeant doesn't know how to employ men, and their equipment is far shittier than people realized. 

[Manoka]

Manoka, you're underestimating the Russian morale. I'm not even going to go into the topic of how Russians adore Putin, but lets rather look at it from a point of view of Russian soldiers. There are 2 kind of soldiers in the armed forces of Russian Federation.

Contractors - those guys just love what they do - Chechnya, Georgia, Crimea etc. These are the kind of lads you do not want to meet when they're drunk and they're drunk quite often.

Conscripts - ordinary lads drafted into the army for 3 year service. Their service begins with half a year of what you'd call Boot Camp. With the exception that they don't get yelled at, they get beaten the shit out of themselves, broom sticks sticked up their butts and then beaten some more. It's called dedovschina. Many have written very horrific overviews of that. A good book is by Arkady Babchenko "One Soldier's War in Chechenya" or Anna Politkoschaya "Putin's Russia" (the journalist the government assassinated in early 2000s). And the end result of that is not a reduced morale. A battle won't be any worse for them than being in the barracks. You're gone get your teeth kicked in either way and perhaps die if you're lucky.

If you read Russian tactical manuals they're quite horrific. For example lets take armoured units. They always operate with several vehicles in a bunch. If the first one gets hit the next one will push it aside - no one's going back for the first one. That's a pretty consistent way of attacking. If they come they keep coming. Mommy's will get the medals for the dead lads.

We in the west are dandy and care for such irrelevant things like human lives wile Russian army medics get Makarov pistols.


I also think you're underestimating the changes in Russian armed forces vs the Soviet army. True Soviet army was built up on mass. They had 200 million population for human resources and larger industrial base. Russian Federation is smaller on every statistical number there, except that they're more effective. They've considerably increased the number of Contractors vs Conscripts. Quite frankly the closest army units to my border don't have any conscripts and that's pretty fucked up. Means you don't want to be captured as POW, save your last shot for yourself.


The only good news about them is that they still love vodka. I'll never forget the news story how Russian army 122mm artillery missed their target by 25km or how there was a Youtube video of drunk Russian soldiers going to store to get some more vodka with a tank. They knocked down a house. The army HQ commented on the issue "soldiers couldn't have been drunk because they were wearing their uniform".

All in all I also believe Western military equipment to be superior. With Russian stuff you always have to take into consideration the Russian factor - low quality control, people not caring about their products and poor maintenance.

Russian morale is literally garbage, but I guess all of you are now learning this in real time. Their lack of concern for human life is their downfall, as their willingness to send soldiers in human wave charges and DIE without turning back just means they'll lose all their men to the meat grinder for no reason. If they were smart they'd retreat, regroup, spend a year training the next recruits and go back in rather than send unarmed soldiers with 10 days of training to the front line to be wiped out again. This is not an advantage. 

Edited by Manoka, 20 October 2022 - 06:13 AM.

[Manoka]

Left over from cutting over 75% of their forces. 

 

Obviously, when you disband large sections of your military you're probably going to keep your more elite units, since you'd probably prioritize, so the efficiency man per man is going to improve (such as if we cut out 90% of our forces but kept all the special forces). That being said, it's still not that high. 

 

 

Would Russians suicide themselves in mass waves to defend territory in the Ukraine?

 

I don't imagine so. But, even if they did, they still are sorely lacking in their previous organization and even in total weapons, many of which they have been selling off, meaning it would just be a disorganized mob with guns at best even if they did. So it wouldn't even be as effective as the soviet army. Going around and flanking the enemy, going around and providing covering fire, advancing, following specific orders since you aren't personally aware of the bigger picture, but being able to piece it out and make decisions accordingly anyways, takes quite a while in training. It takes discipline to live as a soldier, to be able to use secure communication systems to transmit information. Anything that can be transmitted to a mob can be intercepted; sleeping out in the open territory, without any toilets, any way to brush your teeth, even basic equipment or the knowledge of how to use it, being ready to go 24/7 in case of a fight, keeping morale; soldiers live disciplined lives to teach them to live that way in combat. If you don't your "army" will just fall apart. 

 

 

By the time they could rally people with guns to defend the New Soviet empire we'd probably have done most of the damage, and they probably wouldn't be any good. 

 

Russia is still much smaller than the entire soviet union so, there's still a smaller pool of people to gather from even still. 

 

 

Their spetsnaz are formidable, but other than that, we've been battling Russian tanks, guns, aircraft for the last 40 years in Vietnam, Iraq, South America, the Baltic states, pretty much everywhere. 

 

All of their upgrades have been post poned or scrapped, with what few newer weapons or advanced technology going to select units in Spetsnaz, who are in general still not employed properly. In any case, these infantry aren't bullet proof. In open combat, without proper strategies, they more or less will lose. 

I'm just posting this to dunk on you guys. I hope you liberals cringe at your former pro-Russian supporting selves. I'm just here to tell you, I told you so. Do svidaniya! 

Oh I realized you'd say it's really the right in favor of them now, but again, we didn't switch we're still the same, you are just slow to catch up and lack the self awareness to see your old positions. 

Edited by Manoka, 07 December 2022 - 08:05 PM.

[Manoka]

Well, nobody has ever tried it in practice... so.... in theory.

 

Also, no, the US has always been force of tech and numbers. Russia has better tech than the US on most fronts, and has better trained soldiers, trains in Siberia (so, they'd have the upper hand there), and also would be supported on their homefront by China. The primary reason the US has been kicking ass for the last couple of decades is not because they're any better than anyone, but because they've been picking on weak opponents. It's like playing Civ against easy opponents, you don't need to be very good to actually do well.

This is literally one of the dumbest things anyone has ever said on these forums and that's saying a lot. I wonder how Russian T-72's and T-64's are doing against American javelines right now...

[Manoka]

Left over from cutting over 75% of their forces. 

 

Obviously, when you disband large sections of your military you're probably going to keep your more elite units, since you'd probably prioritize, so the efficiency man per man is going to improve (such as if we cut out 90% of our forces but kept all the special forces). That being said, it's still not that high. 

 

 

Would Russians suicide themselves in mass waves to defend territory in the Ukraine?

 

I don't imagine so. But, even if they did, they still are sorely lacking in their previous organization and even in total weapons, many of which they have been selling off, meaning it would just be a disorganized mob with guns at best even if they did. So it wouldn't even be as effective as the soviet army. Going around and flanking the enemy, going around and providing covering fire, advancing, following specific orders since you aren't personally aware of the bigger picture, but being able to piece it out and make decisions accordingly anyways, takes quite a while in training. It takes discipline to live as a soldier, to be able to use secure communication systems to transmit information. Anything that can be transmitted to a mob can be intercepted; sleeping out in the open territory, without any toilets, any way to brush your teeth, even basic equipment or the knowledge of how to use it, being ready to go 24/7 in case of a fight, keeping morale; soldiers live disciplined lives to teach them to live that way in combat. If you don't your "army" will just fall apart. 

 

 

By the time they could rally people with guns to defend the New Soviet empire we'd probably have done most of the damage, and they probably wouldn't be any good. 

 

Russia is still much smaller than the entire soviet union so, there's still a smaller pool of people to gather from even still. 

 

 

Their spetsnaz are formidable, but other than that, we've been battling Russian tanks, guns, aircraft for the last 40 years in Vietnam, Iraq, South America, the Baltic states, pretty much everywhere. 

 

All of their upgrades have been post poned or scrapped, with what few newer weapons or advanced technology going to select units in Spetsnaz, who are in general still not employed properly. In any case, these infantry aren't bullet proof. In open combat, without proper strategies, they more or less will lose. 

 

The only thing I should clarify about this post is that I meant, at the time, that exact time, it would be unlikely for Russia to suicide themselves in massive droves, but it's been 8 years. My prediction on how it would go down if they did seems spot on though 

Edited by Manoka, 17 November 2022 - 06:03 PM.