92 replies to this topic

[HordeLorde]

Ok so I’m not sure how many of you will appreciate this thread, but I ran into a post on Facebook last night in which the great debate ensued. It kind of irked my nerves a bit because it was just a bunch of people being all stubborn and set in their ways on BOTH sides. Stubbornness for the sake of feeding ones ego is something I can't help but loathe. Personally, I am a person who more or less that reason will get you farther 80% of the time....on average. Though I disagree with those who follow faith-based trains of thought, I often find myself coming to their defense against people whose stance I somewhat agree with. What most disappoints me is how people who also take either stance are inherently incessant that their claims are set in stone. Allow me to explain the situation for a clearer view as to why I became so perturbed with last night’s post.

A friend of mine from back home, who is a devout atheist and in an ironic twist wants to believe in ghosts, has for many years been researching and participating in ghost hunts. However he is frustrated with how he has yet to experience a single supernatural event. He let his frustrations be known by saying this:

"I've always had this question and I've been interested in it for over 12 years now, but as both a skeptic and a believer, do Ghosts exist? I've been Ghost Hunting (not professionally) so many times, to so many haunted places, and I've never seen, felt, or heard anything. Shit, I'd stay at the "Villisca Axe Murder House" just so I can see if I can hear something."

Now another friend of his who apparently stands for reason and evidence said the following.....and this is the post that.....well....pissed me off.

“They aren't a thing. All of that is self-substantiation. You want to see ghosts or whatever, you will. It falls under astrology and loch ness and so on. Empirical and testable evidence man."

Now, do ghosts exist? I would say yes from personal experience. I mean of course science and empirical evidence will tell you otherwise. But for people who use science findings to discredit anything surreal/supernatural (whether it is God, ghosts, fairies/fae, loch ness, Sasquatch, the boogeyman etc.) let me explain something to you..... Scientific findings are NOT the be-all end all of every argument. Everything falls victim to the change that TIME creates. And Science is not exempt from this fact, nothing is. Everything changes as we grow and learn. Let me give you an example.... As far as Science is concerned there is currently no cure for AIDS/HIV. That doesn't mean there isn’t one out there it only means we have not discovered one yet and cannot currently wrap our minds around a concept that would lead us to a cure. Try this exercise, draw a stick figure on a piece of paper, and give it a brain. This stick figure with a brain is 2-D, that is.... it only exists within 2 dimensions. Now this stick figure, that has a brain, can only fully comprehend things that reside within its dimensional space. For instance, draw a triangle on the same paper. it understands the triangle, but take it with you on a trip to the pyramids of Giza and it would not even know they are there because those Pyramids reside in the 3rd dimension, just like we human beings do.... because both the pyramids and we (the creators of the stick figure with a brain) exist outside its dimensional space, it cannot perceive us and has no concrete knowledge of us. It may have theories about our existence or even a belief system built around the possibility of our existence. But in the end it’s all just theories and belief systems.... Now try to consider what it’s like to perceive 4-Dimensional constructs and/or beings. You can't, you know why? Because it’s outside your dimensional plane, realm of understanding and experience level. 

Speaking of experience, EVERYTHING we know and understand was/has been experienced at some point by some human somewhere. For instance ever placed your hand on a hot stove? It hurts.... how do you know? Well you experienced it or someone who has told you so. Let’s elevate this concept for a moment. Abraham Lincoln was assassinated, now were any of us there? No, but there were plenty of people who were so we can logically trust this as fact. Mankind landed on the moon. (Or claim to have landed on the moon) Now can any of us concretely say that gravity is different on the moon? No. Of course not. We, ourselves, have never been there, but someone has and they say it’s very different. AIDS/HIV exists, do you have it? Hopefully not. If not, ever known anyone who has had it? If not, then how do you know it really exists? I could go on, but I digress. Now I know how these questions I’m posing have to do with the presentation of evidence, but my point is that the evidence is provided by someone who has an experience within the subject. What I'm finding puzzling, absurd, and rather infuriating is the idea that people say this persons experience is valid because of their evidence "making sense through Empirical data" while another person’s experience is invalid because.....well it’s just plain silly, full of superstition or relies on a personal experience. Science is not concrete. Its primary objective is to find solutions to well just about everything through the experience of hypothesis, test, record, analyze results & state your findings. But when you state your findings, don’t claim it as absolute, because sooner or later someone may come along and show exactly how finite and possibly incorrect your findings were. Science is about growth and learning. It’s about furthering our understanding of things we think we already understand and things we do not understand at all. Throw that away by having an "all we know is set in stone" mentality makes you just as stubborn, crazy, and disingenuous as any religious zealot who claims "this way is the only way and you shall burn if you disagree". Just look at history and see where instances of foolhardy steadfastness in our beliefs gut us. At one point man thought that white people were the only kind of people. Boy did we get that wrong. We thought the sun revolved around the earth not the other way around. Wrong again. The Earth is flat! Are you seeing the pattern? These are all concepts that mankind has excommunicated, exiled and even killed for. We said "NAY! Blasphemy, heresy and apostasy!"...until we were proven wrong and the paradigm shifted.  So do ghosts exist? My experience says yes....and trust me I DID NOT want to experience that. So its not self-substantiated and if it is, i need to have a talk with my subconscious.  As far as everyone else’s opinion goes, think what you will. Believe what you will, but keep an open mind either way. For a mind is like a parachute when you’re falling from 15,000 feet, it useless.....unless it's open.

I end this rant by saying a man who claims to know everything, knows nothing. A man who claims to know nothing has everything yet to learn. What does everybody else think/believe?

[Redezra]

Redezra enters the forums, once again looking for something to do other than what she's sposed to be doing. Fuck real work, let's laugh at funny things and comment on politics that have nothing to do with us!

 

But what's this? A new post by HordeLorde? 

 

No

 

It can't be

 

NEVER AGAIN D:

 

HordeLorde, you're new here, so you don't know the storied and ....rich.... history of Nvicta's religion debates. These generally consist of myself, standing Advocatus Diaboli, literal embodiment of the Anti-Christ and hardline pseudognostic atheist.... vs pretty much anyone with any sort of belief in the supernatural, religion, or the general goodwill of mankind.

 

They never end well.

 

You have now been warned Tread lightly young one

[Justavictim82]

Invictae 2:11:

 

AND ON THE 6TH DAY DAWNY SAID "THERE WILL BE A FUTURE INVICTAN THAT WILL SPREAD MASS CONFUSION AND STUPIDITY. HIS NAME WILLTH BE MANOKA. DO NOT ATTEMPT TO STRIKE HIM DOWN FOR HE WILL MULTIPLE AND RE-MANIFEST HIMSELF AS HORDELORD"

 

Then there was plenty of mead to be consumed by all and this was forgotten.

 

The end

[slimshadyinc]

Ghosts? I have never seen a ghost myself. So I'm not sure if they exist or not. But I'm open to the possibility of a ghost. If I saw one I would think it was really cool. I wouldn't go as far to say they are not real because I have never seen one.

So tell me, how would a coversation about ghosts turn into a religious debate?

Edited by slimshadyinc, 25 June 2015 - 11:37 PM.

[Redezra]

Faith vs Reason. Trust me, this ground is a bad place to be.

[HordeLorde]

Redezra enters the forums, once again looking for something to do other than what she's sposed to be doing. Fuck real work, let's laugh at funny things and comment on politics that have nothing to do with us!

 

But what's this? A new post by HordeLorde? 

 

No

 

It can't be

 

NEVER AGAIN D:

 

HordeLorde, you're new here, so you don't know the storied and ....rich.... history of Nvicta's religion debates. These generally consist of myself, standing Advocatus Diaboli, literal embodiment of the Anti-Christ and hardline pseudognostic atheist.... vs pretty much anyone with any sort of belief in the supernatural, religion, or the general goodwill of mankind.

 

They never end well.

 

You have now been warned Tread lightly young one

Thanks for the warning. ill go put my big boy britches on.
 
Question: You say youre the literal embodiement of the Anti-christ (oingo-boingo.....a supernatural being) yet you stand against supernatural belief systems...... How does it feel too contradict yourself into nothingness? no really i wanna know no sarcasm intended.

Statement: My point of the whole OP is that im essentially tired of the typical track these kinds of debates take. That is closed minded individuals/factions refusing to advance there perspectives and experience for the sake of POSSIBLY being correct.....even though human history pretty much spells it out that the PROBABILITY is against you. And i state that both faith-based and reason based people are all too often guilty of this stubborn mentality. Its not so much an attempt at a great religion debate but more as an opportunity to exercise Socratic Method the way its supposed to be done. Rather than spew out facts (that could change over time and probably already have) or hate-mongering

 we should pose difficult questions to one another to gain a better understanding of a persons perspective and experience.
 

Ghosts? I have never seen a ghost myself. So I'm not sure if they exist or not. But I'm open to the possibility of a ghost. If I saw one I would think it was really cool. I wouldn't go as far to say they are not real because I have never seen one.

So tell me, how would a coversation about ghosts turn into a religious debate?

I Applaud you sir. You get my point. Cant say for sure one way or the other because you havent experienced it. And just imagining experiencing it fills you with awe wonder and curiosity. Congradulations you have now crossed over into the realm of the HordeLorde and are my First disciple.

I could see how one could connect ghosts and religion as they are both dealing with supernatural/ethreal/surreal/hypothetical constructs....

[Shokkou]

They never end well.

[The Dark Empire]

These debates always end badly because it just takes one person to post something condescending and hurtful to derail the entire conversation. As a person who has been part of these debates before I would honestly say they are pointless. Neither side will make any concessions. 

 

I just urge anyone who does participate to be very careful about how you express your opinion. I for one have learned my lesson and will not post anything else on the matter.

[King Biscuit]

/me gets the popcorn and waits for the fireworks

[KiWi]

At least we're a lively bunch.

I mean damn though. Y'all play nice.

I'm sure not participating in the conversation.

[Redezra]

They never end well.

 

Love you too Shokkou~<3

 

Thanks for the warning. ill go put my big boy britches on.

 
Question: You say youre the literal embodiement of the Anti-christ (oingo-boingo.....a supernatural being) yet you stand against supernatural belief systems...... How does it feel too contradict yourself into nothingness? no really i wanna know no sarcasm intended.

Statement: My point of the whole OP is that im essentially tired of the typical track these kinds of debates take. That is closed minded individuals/factions refusing to advance there perspectives and experience for the sake of POSSIBLY being correct.....even though human history pretty much spells it out that the PROBABILITY is against you. And i state that both faith-based and reason based people are all too often guilty of this stubborn mentality. Its not so much an attempt at a great religion debate but more as an opportunity to exercise Socratic Method the way its supposed to be done. Rather than spew out facts (that could change over time and probably already have) or hate-mongering

 we should pose difficult questions to one another to gain a better understanding of a persons perspective and experience.

 

Well, maaaaaaaaaaaybe it's because I find the whole concept so laughable that they're funny names to use. Like calling myself the Princess of Blades, or.... well any one of the multitude of titles I had under the SOS brigade.

Alternatively, I didn't come up with those names, someone gave them to me.

 

Does human history state probability is against me? Or is that a misinterpretation of history? How well do you know history? How well do you know what we know? In my opinion, shockingly little, because I can't perceive of another reason as to why you'd even entertain the concept of something like ghosts. What well understood laws of nature do you base your ideas on? What previous, concrete knowledge do you extrapolate from? 

None? Perhaps that's because there is no evidence to suggest there exists even a mechanism to permit the existence of such entities. What are your ideas? Hypotheses? I want to know, do you have a structured, mechanistic concept of how this even works?

 

Or is it what I expect, magical and wishful thinking of a mind ill equipped to fully understand the universe around us?

 

Understand that I don't intend to insult you. I don't even want to argue. I'm trying to make it apparent where I come from here. I view human minds (including my own) as terrible at actually perceiving the world. We're hardwired to take shortcuts, and match patterns to the point at which we do it when no such pattern exists. From this comes superstition, religion, and unfounded belief. I believe these things are the primary cause of human suffering. Belief that people deserve fates. Belief that people are inherently evil. Belief, with no rational support. Racism, sexism, homophobia, antisemitism... I base these beliefs on the actions of mankind over the current and previous century, and can trace similar actions all through recorded history.

 

As a result, I view the best way to resolve this is to ignore everything we can't pin down to something we can verify, measure... something we know exists, and isn't just in our heads. Things that are supernatural are, as a result, not real. To honestly toy with these views, to me, shows ignorance of one's own condition. One can playfully believe what they like, as you'll see with my political views as they bounce all over the place and make no sense. But when "gets serious", one needs to be sure that their personal prejudices, and superstitions, are expunged, for the good of everything.

 

I get very angry when I see people being this stupid, because I can't understand how they can possibly think any of this could be real. Yeah, that's my own weakness, but at least I know it.

 

 

That's your last warning. This is a bad place to be.

[PrinceVegeta]

Oh boy has it been a while since someone brought this up.

 

KB mind sharing some of that popcorn?

Edited by PrinceVegeta, 26 June 2015 - 11:56 PM.

[HordeLorde]

 

They never end well.

 

Love you too Shokkou~<3

 

>>Thanks for the warning. ill go put my big boy britches on.

 
Question: You say youre the literal embodiement of the Anti-christ (oingo-boingo.....a supernatural being) yet you stand against supernatural belief systems...... How does it feel too contradict yourself into nothingness? no really i wanna know no sarcasm intended.

Statement: My point of the whole OP is that im essentially tired of the typical track these kinds of debates take. That is closed minded individuals/factions refusing to advance there perspectives and experience for the sake of POSSIBLY being correct.....even though human history pretty much spells it out that the PROBABILITY is against you. And i state that both faith-based and reason based people are all too often guilty of this stubborn mentality. Its not so much an attempt at a great religion debate but more as an opportunity to exercise Socratic Method the way its supposed to be done. Rather than spew out facts (that could change over time and probably already have) or hate-mongering

 we should pose difficult questions to one another to gain a better understanding of a persons perspective and experience.

 

Well, maaaaaaaaaaaybe it's because I find the whole concept so laughable that they're funny names to use. Like calling myself the Princess of Blades, or.... well any one of the multitude of titles I had under the SOS brigade.

Alternatively, I didn't come up with those names, someone gave them to me.

 

Does human history state probability is against me? Or is that a misinterpretation of history? How well do you know history? How well do you know what we know? In my opinion, shockingly little, because I can't perceive of another reason as to why you'd even entertain the concept of something like ghosts. What well understood laws of nature do you base your ideas on? What previous, concrete knowledge do you extrapolate from? 

None? Perhaps that's because there is no evidence to suggest there exists even a mechanism to permit the existence of such entities. What are your ideas? Hypotheses? I want to know, do you have a structured, mechanistic concept of how this even works?

 

Or is it what I expect, magical and wishful thinking of a mind ill equipped to fully understand the universe around us?

 

Understand that I don't intend to insult you. I don't even want to argue. I'm trying to make it apparent where I come from here. I view human minds (including my own) as terrible at actually perceiving the world. We're hardwired to take shortcuts, and match patterns to the point at which we do it when no such pattern exists. From this comes superstition, religion, and unfounded belief. I believe these things are the primary cause of human suffering. Belief that people deserve fates. Belief that people are inherently evil. Belief, with no rational support. Racism, sexism, homophobia, antisemitism... I base these beliefs on the actions of mankind over the current and previous century, and can trace similar actions all through recorded history.

 

As a result, I view the best way to resolve this is to ignore everything we can't pin down to something we can verify, measure... something we know exists, and isn't just in our heads. Things that are supernatural are, as a result, not real. To honestly toy with these views, to me, shows ignorance of one's own condition. One can playfully believe what they like, as you'll see with my political views as they bounce all over the place and make no sense. But when "gets serious", one needs to be sure that their personal prejudices, and superstitions, are expunged, for the good of everything.

 

I get very angry when I see people being this stupid, because I can't understand how they can possibly think any of this could be real. Yeah, that's my own weakness, but at least I know it.

 

 

That's your last warning. This is a bad place to be.

 

Does human history state probability is against us? yes. Think of anything we based a conclusion on before getting the facts and ended up being wrong. You can use one of my examples in the OP or recall another one there are plenty of examples. Then think of a moment in history where we thought we had sorted ourselves out on one of the previous issues and were finally correct but ended up being wrong AGAIN. You practically answered this yourself when you said "I view human minds (including my own) as terrible at actually perceiving the world. We're hardwired to take shortcuts, and match patterns to the point at which we do it when no such pattern exists." We actually all do this on a daily basis, that is forming prejudices based on our personal experiences. most of the time its minor, like refusing to eat  ice cream cuz you had vanilla-flavored ice cream once and it tasted horrible, then you give in to your friends incessant pleading and you have some and its the best vanilla ice cream you ever had. Probability is even more against you when you factor in all the possibilities which we are yet to possibly discover.To go along with the previous ice cream prejudice example: possibilities such as chocolate, strawberry, sherberts and ben & jerrys seemingly endless line of flavors....and then some more.

Or is that a misinterpretation of history? How well do i know history? Misinterpretation is unavoidable for many reasons but mostly(in my opinion) because history is written by the victor and the falsifying of information because of _________ reason, followed by human prejudice and the innate stubborness that comes along with it.

 How well do i know what we know? i Cant say for certain but i continuously keep my self active in trying to learn more. once i learn about a subject, i dont say to myself ooooh well thats that now i know everything there is to know about that and cannot be questioned further. Thats ludacris.  thats my entire point, one should keep themselves open to new possibilities and discoveries rather than stating "we know all there is to know about the subject". Or as you put it  "one needs to be sure that their personal prejudices, and superstitions, are expunged, for the good of everything." The issue im having with you here is that you seem to only want to take what we can "verify, measure... something we know exists, and isn't just in our heads." and stay there. not growing not learning not checking and verifying everything over and over to constantly validate information. Things change and we have to adapt rather than stuff information into our box of understanding that works for us. Put 2 people in a room, 1 a faith based thinker and 1 reason based thinker and ask them to solve the mysteries of Life the Universe and everything in 7 days. Now the nature of those mysteries alone will pretty much result the endeavor in failure. But lets look at the smaller picture for a moment. 9 times outta 10, these two people will get NOWHERE because theyll spend 2.3 days sleeping and the rest arguing there very different perceptions of the matter. So they will fail on that alone. All because they are focusing on the problem and not the solution, because they refuse to have their stances challenged and met with the harsh reality of the truth or truth for the moment. At the moment we cannot measure or quantify anything regarding the subjects of the supernatural, but that DOES NOT mean that we wont ever be able to. We should constantly strive towards this goal.... that is developing a way to measure and quantify things we currently cannot, rather than stating it cant and will never be done. Even though we may actually never be able to do something, we can't know thatas fact until we test all the possibilities. And new possibilities are born each day from the womb of discovery.

Faith has the hope in something greater required to discover more, but too often is stubborn to learn for fear of proving itself incorrect. Science has the desire to learn required to discover more and welcomes being wrong, but too often lacks the hope that learning more is possible.

As much of an asshole i think Thomas Edison is, he said a number of things that make me admire him as a scientist/inventor.
“When you have exhausted all possibilities, remember this - you haven't."

"I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work."

“Many of life's failures are people who did not realize how close they were to success when they gave up.”

“Five percent of the people think;  ten percent of the people think they think;  and the other eighty-five percent would rather die than think.”

“We often miss opportunity because it's dressed in overalls and looks like work” 
“If we all did the things we are really capable of doing, we would literally astound ourselves.” 


 

Edited by HordeLorde, 27 June 2015 - 03:17 AM.

[Redezra]

Aaaand you completely missed the point.

 

You aren't open minded, you're foolish. You think I'm somehow rejecting something because I refuse it out of hand, no I reject it because there exists no evidence. I am permitted to do that, it's an idea with no weight.

 

If you'd like to try and make a point here, I want to know exactly how you think this (in this case, ghosts) works. Mechanistic definition. What are ghosts made of? How do they come about? How can some people find them nearly anywhere and some can never find them at all? How. I must know how. If there is no reason beyond "Eh, somehow I dunno, but I swear they're real!" then you're acting a child and I have nothing more to say to you.

[HordeLorde]

Im not saying your rejecting out of hand. And it is fair to reject it because there is no evidence. But to completely dismiss the idea and not test further is foolish. You act as if it is something completely out of science fiction and will never lead to science fact. You claim your finding (that ghosts do not exist) cannot be questioned and is absolute fact never ever to be changed ever. That is foolish. There will always be discoveries yet to be made. There will always be things yet to learn. There will always be information that will blow our minds when revealed to us and shift our paradigms of thought into unexplored arenas. This "oh i have no evidence and thats all folks case closed" attitude teaches you nothing. it gets you nowhere. Sure i will grant there is no substantial evidence other than personal experiences (which are questionable at the very least) to prove ghosts exist. Or god or leperachauns. Or sasquatch or angels or aliens etc. etc. etc. THAT DOES NOT MEAN THERE NEVER WILL BE. That does NOT MEAN that some scientist will not invent some machine or tap into some ethereal code or create a serum that will be one with cosmos. However if every thinker, faith based and reason based, adopted the attitude such as the oone your displaying here we are bound to get nowhere. My point is stop obsessing over what is fact now and regain some of that childlike curiosity that enables us to discover what could be fact tomorrow. 

AND FURTHERMORE.....i would rather explore strange new worlds and seek out new life and new civilizations....boldly go wher noo man has gone before and be labeled a fool for doing so....than sit cowardly and cling to my precious and potentially misguided information. For though i may fail and falter i will at least be brave in my attempt.

Edited by HordeLorde, 28 June 2015 - 12:44 AM.

[Redezra]

Again, you continue to miss the point. If someone were to prove anything... and again you've put forward nothing to prove >.>... I'd go "Oh ok, right then."

 

Trick is, nobody has, and cause such a concept relies on a wealth of not discovered mechanisms ( or in some cases mechanisms the evidence is against), going after something as laughably implausible as ghosts is a waste of time. You are wasting the time you could be doing useful things. 

 

Like going out and exploring the universe, for example.
 

Curiosity is good and all, but it must be tempered with reason. Otherwise you're just crazy.

[HordeLorde]

Thats the problem with humans, you think once youve figured something out thats all she wrote. Cat's outta the bag now lets pet the damn thing over and over and make it feel like a pretty kitty. Meanwhile your destinies laugh at your wasteful knowledge hoarding and keel over when nature pulls the proverbial rug from underneath your feet. Silly humans can't learn the lesson that they just dont know everything and refuse to accept that they are trudging through the universe at a boring speed because they think they already do.

WASTE OF TIME YOU SAY? No experiment is a waste of time. We can conclusively say that there are phenomena of which the nature is unexplainable to us. Person 1 says these phenomena are ghosts, but they cant prove it. Person 2 says its definately not a ghost because thats just preposturus but they have no alternative explanation either. You cant say for certain it is a ghost, but you also cannot say for certain it isnt either. Do mean to tell me that person 1's hypothesis on these phenomena is invalid simply because it cant be explained logically, while person 2's hypothesis is grounded simply because they came to a seemingly logical conclusion that the other persons is wrong while simultaneously having no clear explanation themselves.... there is a double standard there. And for the record there are inumerable accounts from people all over the world throughout history that have seen a ghost. Some of these have been verified as unexplainable phenomena from multiple sources as possible ghosts. There are photos of hypothesized ghosts, video and sound recordings of hypothesized ghosts, althougoh video editing and photoshop exist today they havent always. Plus there is the personal experiences to account for and you cant say ghosts arent real because you havent experienced one because then i can say John F Kennedy wasnt shot in the back of the head because i wasnt there to experience it. SIgning of the Constittution never happened...didnt experience it. oh and the birth and death of my great great grand father never happened because i didnt experience it. You never made it out of 5th grade any other grade for that matter because i didnt experience it. Everything past the milky way galaxy they say exists doesnt because well hell ive never seen it. Sure there are photos but those can be doctored up on one of them computing machines things. We never split the atom, we never discovered penicillan we never found the cure for polio and all those people who said they experienced it are lying because of reasons(which is exactly the unfair judgement youre placing on people who have had the experience of witnessing paranormal/supernatural activity). With EVERYTHING.... every finding every moment in history every tasty morsel of information that is placed in front of us comes  THE ELEMENT OF HUMAN EXPERIENCE. And when we have a mountain of experience related to the subject of ghosts, i know its not hard to deny it as you so easily do but we have to do our best to trust it until someone comes along and proves it either way. 

As far as tempering curiosity with reason, thats the same generic stance that those who laughed at the "world is round theory" took. yure following the same equation with different variables. "Oh well i have no way to prove the world is flat or round but because respectable scientists are saying its flat and you say its round im gonna say its flat and call you crazy." (Frankly im surprised no one ever said "The world definately aint flat and ill prove it. I had too climb a hill to get here") Like wise youre saying  "Oh well i have no way to prove if ghosts exist or not but because respectable scientists are saying they dont and others say they do, im gonna say they dont and call believers in ghosts crazy." Thats just plain out laziness. Not seeking to discover the truth for yourself just abiding with the majority concensus.

Edited by HordeLorde, 28 June 2015 - 04:11 AM.

[HordeLorde]

I sure hope that me and Redezra are blowing Google's mind because they sure do read this thread alot!

[PrinceVegeta]

Well since KB took his popcorn elsewhere, I might as well weigh in a bit too. I'm bored anyway. lol

 

I have to somewhat agree with Red in the sense that she is hitting everything here. Like, HordeLorde, what you have stated so far is mostly the same as what Red is stating just with a little too much extra feel, if you get me. 

 

 

Like going out and exploring the universe, for example.

 

Curiosity is good and all, but it must be tempered with reason. Otherwise you're just crazy.

 

That, is essentially what we need to get at. No ones being close minded here, it may seem that way, but it's nothing more than precaution. You sit these things on a shelf, don't worry about them. Then while you focus on something that is a more feasible, you may find evidence regarding the ghost and supernatural shit, while still being on track with something that's more important. 

 

Humanity has a big problem with trying to figure out, as a race, what is important. It's mostly just a bunch of emotional shit and that gets in the way of what is actually important for everyone. Like I'll give an example. We all know just recently the US legalized gay marriage. Something like that, which has no real consequence, and that no one should bitch about, was bitched about. Why? Well people "feel" that morally gay is just bad. With not a single thing that they could say that actually mattered to support there case. Just either distaste, or because the love deprived 12 year old in sky said so, or hell to pay..literally. It's a trivial issue. I was pissed that we're still on this shit about gays. Like is that really that important? Do we not have other things that are more important than worrying about men fucking men or women fucking women? Sex...we're disputing, sex. Just let that simmer...

 

Don't get me wrong, emotions are apart of being Human and it is important to our very survival, But...it needs to be controlled as stated before. Other than that, I'm sure Google is entertained.

Edited by PrinceVegeta, 28 June 2015 - 12:13 PM.

[HordeLorde]

Well since KB took his popcorn elsewhere, I might as well weigh in a bit too. I'm bored anyway. lol

 

I have to somewhat agree with Red in the sense that she is hitting everything here. Like, HordeLorde, what you have stated so far is mostly the same as what Red is stating just with a little too much extra feel, if you get me. 

 

 

Like going out and exploring the universe, for example.

 

Curiosity is good and all, but it must be tempered with reason. Otherwise you're just crazy.

 

That, is essentially what we need to get at. No ones being close minded here, it may seem that way, but it's nothing more than precaution. You sit these things on a shelf, don't worry about them. Then while you focus on something that is a more feasible, you may find evidence regarding the ghost and supernatural shit, while still being on track with something that's more important. 

 

Humanity has a big problem with trying to figure out, as a race, what is important. It's mostly just a bunch of emotional shit and that gets in the way of what is actually important for everyone. Like I'll give an example. We all know just recently the US legalized gay marriage. Something like that, which has no real consequence, and that no one should bitch about, was bitched about. Why? Well people "feel" that morally gay is just bad. With not a single thing that they could say that actually mattered to support there case. Just either distaste, or because the love deprived 12 year old in sky said so, or hell to pay..literally. It's a trivial issue. I was pissed that we're still on this shit about gays. Like is that really that important? Do we not have other things that are more important than worrying about men fucking men or women fucking women? Sex...we're disputing, sex. Just let that simmer...

 

Don't get me wrong, emotions are apart of being Human and it is important to our very survival, But...it needs to be controlled as stated before. Other than that, I'm sure Google is entertained.

 

i catch your drift. and im down for setting something on a shelf in order to do other things. im not gonna spend every waking hour of my life hunting ghosts....im not gonna spend all my research hours on it either....im far too interested in so much other shit to stay focused on ghosts alone. ill also agree that me and red are saying close to the same thing, but the big difference is she seems to rather just throw the idea of ghosts in a trash can and say its not worth anyones time rather place it on a shelf or a backburner. that is my first big issue with her statements, the second is the blatant disregard for others personal experiences. not mine or yours specifically, but rather a slew of people who have experienced and recorded in multiple ways events that could lead one to believe in ghosts in general. Without offering alternative hypothesis of these events be it hers or someone elses just that people who believe in ghosts are crazy unreasonable and stupid.