33 replies to this topic

[Redezra]

Actually, no, you're wrong there. As I see it, it's a meta-entity. It can be thought of as a separate thing only so far as in it's actions are considered. It's motives and function are as if it was not a thing, and simply an extension of the people. Ie., it's a bit more complicated than black and white.

 

I agree that people should discuss the application of government funds to things, but I don't think people should attack the system, or the way in funds are appropriated, if their primary intent is to try and argue that because it does not pay for something you want (or pays for something you're against), that it is somehow bad and should be stripped of "their" money. You don't have that right, you gave that up to live in the country. The Government will take your money, and at that point it ceases to be your money and becomes everyone's money, in which case it is spent as everyone has thusfar decided via the fair medium of representative democracy.

 

Didn't vote for the person representing you? Tough. That's democracy. Your alternative option is something non-representational and probably less fair. Them's the rules you agreed to by living (or continuing to live) in a country. You agree to abide by the majority's choice, and accept that the person representing your area as a result represents you. Again, if you don't like that, now's the time to go and argue to other people as to why, but don't try and make it seem like the system is somehow horrible because you didn't get what you want, only to praise it when you do get what you want.

 

But that's why I don't like democracy in the first place. I think it's not representative of anyone, it's not efficient, it's not got good direction, and it does not aim for the greater good as a government ostensibly should. I don't even like the system when I do get what I want, because it's a perversion of what I want.

 

 

I do understand my views are real confusing, but that's cause I like to operate as much as possible in the real world. My idealistic dreamspace is very different

[Shokkou]

Your views are not confusing at all. It's very plain and easy to see how contradictory they are.

 

Again, they do absolutely have that right. If they did not, they would be jailed for complaining about it and we wouldn't be living in a democracy at all.

 

This has gotten to the point of talking in circles and you are still contradicting yourself everywhere.

[ᗅᗺᗷᗅ]

Look at it through the lens of capitalism. Taxes are the price we pay for being an American, and all the benefits and privileges that conveys, which range from the obvious (Social Security benefits, for example) to the subtle (decent roads and relative security). In that model, once we have paid for these services the money ceases to be ours and becomes the property of the seller, in this case the government. Except that we elect the government from amongst ourselves, at least in theory. But that gets back to the influence of private money on American politics, and how it corrupts the system.

 

No matter what region of the political spectrum you inhabit, I think everyone is in agreement that the current system is not working as intended. And that is the inherent weakness of the American political system: Our Constitution is, by design, difficult to change. For all practical purposes it is impossible to change in today's charged political environment. Too many high hurdles have to be reached. This was to prevent individuals or parties from making changes willy-nilly, and for the most part it has been a good thing. But the world is moving at a pace much faster than anything the Founding Fathers could have imagined. Our system is having a difficult time adapting.

 

It is always difficult to compare the present day to historical periods, because we really only know the world as it is now. None of us are old enough to have experienced world war, for example. For us it's something from movies and stories. We have lived a pretty safe and stable existence in the West for quite a long time now, nigh on 70 years. That's remarkable. And historically unusual. We're overdue for some serious socio-political upheaval. (And by "we" I mean the somewhat ephemeral notion of "The West," including the United States, Britain, Western Europe, Australia, New Zealand, etc. ). War, depression, famine — revolution? Anything is possible.

[Redezra]

Your views are not confusing at all. It's very plain and easy to see how contradictory they are.

 

Again, they do absolutely have that right. If they did not, they would be jailed for complaining about it and we wouldn't be living in a democracy at all.

 

This has gotten to the point of talking in circles and you are still contradicting yourself everywhere.

 

They have the right to free speech, and so they can express what is essentially a futile opinion.

[Shokkou]

If you had your way and they just shut their mouths? It certainly would be.

[Redezra]

I don't intend for them to just shut their mouths, I intend for them to do something rather than rail against the system itself.

 

I mean, seriously, what the fuck is the point of a democratic system if people don't understand how it works?

[Shokkou]

Says the person who doesn't seem to understand that one of the points of a democracy is that people can rail against the system if they don't like what it does. It works because people can rail against things in an effort to gain support for their stance, and that does actually count as "doing something."

[Redezra]

...

 

I thought I was getting angry at people who say "I should be exempt from this because money doesn't go towards things I want"

[Shokkou]

Is that what you've been on about this whole time? Why didn't you just say "I find it absurd when people say they should be exempt from taxes because they don't agree with everything the government spends money on?" That, at least, I agree with.

 

Saying "Why do you care where your money goes? I mean it's tax money right?" or "straight up complaining about taxes and where 'your' money goes is silly" etc etc is different from saying "people shouldn't be exempt from taxes just because they don't like what they're going toward." I do not see anywhere in your previous posts where you mention exemption.

[Redezra]

*reads her comments*

 

Nooo, it's pretty obvious to me.

[Shokkou]

Well of course you know what you mean when you say something. That's not really a strong case. The fact is that your posts did not address what you were actually trying to talk about.

[ᗅᗺᗷᗅ]

LISTEN TO WHAT I MEAN, NOT WHAT I SAY!

[Redezra]

^ *giggle giggle*

[Manoka]

I think things are better than a lot of people realize and so they think there's some super bad thing when there really isn't. 

 

There are bad things, but they're almost never addressed.