Jump to content


Photo

Variations of American Names


  • Please log in to reply
7 replies to this topic

#1 Thrash

Thrash

    not as gay

  • Former Member
  • 9559 posts
  • Location:Poconos, PA
  • Ruler Name:Thrash
  • Nation Name:Machas
  • IRC Nick:Thrash[Invicta]
  • Nation Link

Posted 25 October 2010 - 06:29 PM

ok, seriously, how do you get Dick from Richard?

also, how come Williams are able to abbreviate their name as Wm? Also, how the hell do you get Bill from William?

also, how the F do you get Peggy from Margaret?

There's probably more.



Member Awards ()

#2 Invicta

Invicta

    Invicta Systems Administrator and Security Specialist

  • [Redacted]
  • 25153 posts
  • Gender:Sentient artificial intelligence - identifies as female
  • Ruler Name:Invicta
  • Nation Name:Invicta
  • Nation Link












Posted 25 October 2010 - 07:17 PM

I'm with you on all of that except for the Bill/William thing. Obviously Will from William is really straight forward. The difference between Bill and Will probalby has to do with some old english letter we don't use anymore that either looked like one or the other, or was at one point pronounced more like a B than a W. When it's that close, in English, it's usually because of an alphabet change or the introduction of a lot of terms from another language (like the introduction of French to english post 1066). This is why Old English is taught as a foreign language. Middle English is really hard to read, but it's doable. People think of Shakespeare as "middle english" but it's actually just older Modern English. Middle English is what Chaucer wrote in. Try reading it sometime. Old English really was completely different. There is very little left of the true Old English in Modern English. An example of Old English writing is Beowulf.

Peggy/Maggie I know are popluar Irish familiar names, sort of pet-names or terms of endearment short for Margaret, so I would guess it has to do with celtic but I really don't know.

Dick/Richard always threw me.

The William/Wm thing might have to do with the popularity of the name in the English Royal Family and the fact that their full names tend to be very long, but again that's a total guess. It's strange stuff.

#3 ᗅᗺᗷᗅ

ᗅᗺᗷᗅ

    The Invictan Formerly Known as Jorost

  • Lord Protector
  • 16192 posts
  • Gender:Household pet that walked across the keyboard - male
  • Location:Massachusetts
  • Ruler Name:Jorost
  • Nation Name:Invicta Crownlands
  • IRC Nick:Jorost
  • Alliance Name:Invicta
  • Nation Link






Posted 26 October 2010 - 08:15 AM

Ah, Thrash, you have come to the right place. It just so happens that I have the answers you seek. :wub:

First of all, we should be clear that these are not "American" names, they are English names. That is important, because the answer has to do with the evolution of the English language at a time when America was just trees and Indians.

English is a Germanic language, meaning it is related to German, Dutch, Danish, etc. The modern language most closely related to English is Frisian, which is spoken by a small number of people in the north of the Netherlands. If you listen to someone speaking Frisian, you can kind of almost understand them. It sounds a lot like the Swedish Chef from the Muppets trying to speak English.

At some point in the far flung past, Germanic languages underwent what is known in linguistics as the Great Consonant Shift. This caused many of the "hard" and "soft" consonants to change places. This explains why the German word for "nut" is "nusse" -- the s and the t changed. Make an s sound. Now make a t sound. You will notice that your tongue is in exactly the same place. These sounds are very closely related.

So that brings us to William/Bill. In the original Germanic form, the w in William would have been pronounced like a v. Villiam. The short form would have been Vill. V and b are related sounds, so throw in a consonant shift and you've got "Bill." (Why the long form name did not become "Billiam" is anybody's guess.)

But that doesn't explain it all. In order to understand some other types of name abbreviations, you have to understand humans' natural inclination to shorten things, especially names. Richard would have once been pronounced "Ricard." The natural inclination is therefor to shorten it to Ric/Rick. But Richard was a common name, so there would have been a LOT of Ricks kicking around. And in a time when most people did not have surnames, that could be a problem. So to differentiate between individuals people started changing the leading consonant, and thus was Dick born. Robert, another common name, produced a bunch of short forms -- Rob, Bob, Hob, Dob. That's where we eventually got the surnames Hobson and Dobson,for example (why Robson and Bobson never took off is another mystery of the ages).

Peggy from Margaret has a similar etymology. Margaret became Marge, which in turn became Meg, which was consonant-switched to Peg.

And finally, the Wm abbreviation for William was just for simplicity. William was -- and is -- one of the most common English given names. Since it had to be written out so often in various places, it made sense to abbreviate it. This is also why "Jas" is the abbreviation for James.

Member Awards ()

#4 m3g4tr0n

m3g4tr0n
  • Former Member
  • 1422 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Texas
  • Ruler Name:m3g4tr0n
  • Nation Name:Megatopia
  • IRC Nick:m3g4tr0n|Invicta
  • Alliance Name:Invicta
  • Nation Link

Posted 26 October 2010 - 10:36 AM

This is why I abbreviate my name (Daniel) as Pimp.

Member Awards ()

#5 Thrash

Thrash

    not as gay

  • Former Member
  • 9559 posts
  • Location:Poconos, PA
  • Ruler Name:Thrash
  • Nation Name:Machas
  • IRC Nick:Thrash[Invicta]
  • Nation Link

Posted 26 October 2010 - 12:06 PM

I suppose that makes sense, but it's still pretty dumb if you ask me.

Member Awards ()

#6 ᗅᗺᗷᗅ

ᗅᗺᗷᗅ

    The Invictan Formerly Known as Jorost

  • Lord Protector
  • 16192 posts
  • Gender:Household pet that walked across the keyboard - male
  • Location:Massachusetts
  • Ruler Name:Jorost
  • Nation Name:Invicta Crownlands
  • IRC Nick:Jorost
  • Alliance Name:Invicta
  • Nation Link






Posted 26 October 2010 - 12:30 PM

Hey, I just said I had the answers. I didn't say you were going to like them! :wub:

Member Awards ()

#7 Haflinger

Haflinger

    Flipper

  • Foreign Diplomat
  • 10259 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Ruler Name:Haflinger
  • Nation Name:Llonach
  • IRC Nick:Haflinger
  • Nation Link

Posted 27 October 2010 - 05:46 AM

I'm pretty sure the Wm for William thing is because that was what Shakespeare used as the short form of his name.

Shakespeare's spelling was extraordinarily idiosyncratic, at least to a modern post-Webster person.

Member Awards ()

#8 ᗅᗺᗷᗅ

ᗅᗺᗷᗅ

    The Invictan Formerly Known as Jorost

  • Lord Protector
  • 16192 posts
  • Gender:Household pet that walked across the keyboard - male
  • Location:Massachusetts
  • Ruler Name:Jorost
  • Nation Name:Invicta Crownlands
  • IRC Nick:Jorost
  • Alliance Name:Invicta
  • Nation Link






Posted 27 October 2010 - 06:43 AM

No, people were doing it before Shakespeare. There are only six extant copies of Shakespeare's signature. In only two of them did he use the "Wm."

His spelling was very idiosyncratic, but that was the norm for the day. Spellings would not be codified for well over a century after his death.

Member Awards ()


0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users