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#41 King Biscuit

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Posted 25 June 2014 - 08:51 PM

ISIS-Mosul-Parade-6-thumb-560x315-3337.j

 

I like this one best.

I wonder where they got the guns from too.



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#42 ᗅᗺᗷᗅ

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Posted 25 June 2014 - 08:54 PM

ISIS-Mosul-Parade-6-thumb-560x315-3337.j

 

I like this one best.

I wonder where they got the guns from too.

 

This is the problem.  This is why the administration has been so reluctant to support the rebels fighting Assad, because they knew any weapons would end up in the wrong hands.  This is a real damned if you do/damned if you don't situation.  And all because one wannabe cowboy had daddy issues.



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#43 Manoka

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Posted 25 June 2014 - 09:06 PM

ISIS-Mosul-Parade-6-thumb-560x315-3337.j

 

I like this one best.

I wonder where they got the guns from too.

There's never been a question whether or not they'd capture some equipment, but it's a relatively small fraction of the whole.


Edited by Manoka, 25 June 2014 - 09:19 PM.


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#44 Manoka

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Posted 25 June 2014 - 09:24 PM

Yeah.  No matter the legality of it, the fact remains that ISIS is in control of a large portion of Iraq.  And in many cases, according to Filkins (above), the local Sunni population is glad.

 

Removing Saddam Hussein from power was not worth any of this.

3000 armed militants "taking over", opposed by basically everybody (including Al Qaeda and Iran), a very small sliver of Iraq. Much worse than Saddam having butchered hundreds of thousands of his own people, his use of nerve gas, the 500 tons of uranium he had lying around, his attacks on foreign country's like Kuwait and Saudi Arabia when he had the 4th largest military in the world at the time... 

 

20140610_IRAQ1.png


Edited by Manoka, 25 June 2014 - 09:25 PM.


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#45 King Biscuit

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Posted 25 June 2014 - 09:32 PM

Much worse than Saddam having butchered hundreds of thousands of his own people, his use of nerve gas, the 500 tons of uranium he had lying around,

 

Source.



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#46 *Anastasia

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Posted 25 June 2014 - 09:34 PM

Source.


The voices in his head.

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#47 *Anastasia

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Posted 25 June 2014 - 09:56 PM

ISIS vows to attack Americans if the US launches air strikes in Iraq.

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#48 Rogal Dorn

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Posted 25 June 2014 - 10:39 PM

ISIS vows to attack Americans if the US launches air strikes in Iraq.


this is hilarious considering they're huge fans of meeting Senator John McCain in Syria. Should've killed him then.

http://www.dcclothes...to-john-mccain/

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#49 Redezra

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Posted 25 June 2014 - 10:43 PM

Well, I guess McCain is as crazy and conservative as they are.



#50 Rogal Dorn

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Posted 26 June 2014 - 01:10 AM

So apparently there are reports of government forces killing prisoners in their jail cells before retreating. for some dumb fucking reason.

The United Nations says more than 1,000 people, mainly civilians, have been killed during the Sunni insurgents' advance in Iraq, spearheaded by al Qaeda offshoot ISIL.
The figure includes unarmed government troops machine-gunned in mass graves by insurgents, as well as several reported incidents of prisoners killed in their cells by retreating government forces.


http://www.reuters.c...140625?irpc=932

#51 Chax

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Posted 26 June 2014 - 02:35 AM

Source.

 

 

The voices in his head.

 

 

Wow you two, way to pay attention to the world. Iraq has plenty of uranium laying around.

 

 

 

http://www.theguardi...lian-areas-iraq

 

It's just...er...funny story about that actually. 



#52 the rebel

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Posted 26 June 2014 - 04:11 AM

@Ernesto Che Guevara: You beat me to it. Though you're wrong it was Iraq using depleted uranium against the allies... Sorry for a moment then I was in Manoka's mind.

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#53 *Anastasia

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Posted 26 June 2014 - 07:57 AM



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#54 ᗅᗺᗷᗅ

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Posted 26 June 2014 - 09:28 AM

John McCain is a disappointing, almost tragic figure.  Had he been elected president in 2000 I think we might have seen a very different direction for the United States.  He was a maverick then, a guy who challenged his own party on their hypocrisy and bullshit.  But they curbstomped him, and come 2008 he was a good boy who towed the party line.

 

One thing about McCain that I have always found distasteful is his hawkish attitude on war and the use of military force.  You would think that someone who spent years as a POW would be more circumspect about putting American lives in danger.



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#55 Cress

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Posted 26 June 2014 - 10:40 AM

i wish there was a dislike button right about meow...
 

Why? It's about time we (US/UK.Etc.) need to stop meddling. When they become a direct threat to us then retaliate. We have nothing to gain from going in there again. What is the point on wasting hundreds if not thousands of, more than likely NATO, troops? Leave them to it, I am sure they will figure it out on themselves.



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#56 ᗅᗺᗷᗅ

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Posted 26 June 2014 - 01:26 PM

I think it's more complicated than that.  It's not just ensuring our interests, it's ensuring that hostile interests do not benefit.  If we were to simply wash our hands of Iraq, for example, it would mean conceding Baghdad to Iran, and probably losing much of northern and western Iraq to ISIS' new "caliphate."  This would pit fundamentalist, largely Wahhabi Sunnis against the world's most powerful Shi'ite regime.  Oh, and then there's the Arab-Persian thing.

 

Now, maybe you say that's what we should do, just walk away and "let them kill each other."  But there are problems with that:

 

1. Oil.  This region contains over half the world's known oil reserves.  Together, Saudi Arabia, Iraq, and Iran possess 500 trillion barrels of oil.  That's good, because the world uses almost 100 million barrels a day.  The United States accounts for 19 million of these, but the rest of the world is catching up.  So like it or not, we need that oil.  It is a vital resource essential to our economy, infrastructure, and way of life.  We live in a petroleum-based society.  So we have to have that petroleum.  If not us, who?  The Chinese?  The Russians?

 

2. Israel.  Israel is a close ally of the United States, the Jewish lobby has a great deal of influence in Washington, and the Jewish vote is crucial in many states.  The United States cannot and will not abandon Israel, nor is it in our interest to create a situation that threatens Israel's security, as the establishment of an ISIS-controlled state certainly would be.  Again, this is a like it or not situation.  I make no comment as to the rightness or wrongness of this policy, I am merely stating the reality of the situation.

 

3. ISIS.  This is a dangerous group that rose up almost out of nowhere and quickly seized control of the Islamist movements opposing Assad in Syria, and in two years they have become a de facto state.  They already control several major Iraqi cities, including Mosul, and many online sources (although tellingly not the mass media) are reporting that people are happier under ISIS rule.  Granted, it's early days yet — I'm sure many Iranians who were happy with the revolution in 1979 later came to be less so.  But if these reports are true it does not bode well for the central government in Baghdad, nor for the United States.  An ISIS-controlled state, recognized or not, would have the potential to become a major training ground and staging area for attacks on the United States.  Not to mention the threat it would pose to #1 and #2, above.

 

I do not disagree with the assertion that the United States' national interests are directly impacted by events in Iraq.  I just don't know what I would do about it.  It's easy to coach from the sidelines, but the reality of the game is so much more complicated.  This is one time I'm glad I'm not president!



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#57 *Anastasia

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Posted 26 June 2014 - 01:47 PM

There's also the civilian element. 'Let them kill each other / sort out their own problems' was the same mantra which has even recently led to genocides in Rwanda and in Bosnia. By the time anyone attempted to intervene, the damage was already done. As much as I don't feel direct intervention in Iraq is necessarily the right move here, I do fear that if ISIL is allowed to expand unchecked, this is the same fate to which we will be consigning Shi'ites in southern Iraq as well as to various religious minorities, including Shi'ites, Alawites, Druze, and Christians in Syria. And to tie in with Jorost's post, what becomes of American interests then?

If Iraq and Syria fall to ISIL and there is a massacre or exodus of Shi'ites, this will put pressure on neighboring countries who are forced to deal with refugees (and the fact they now have a hostile Takfiri dictatorship on their borders). American allies such as Jordan, the Zionist Regime, and KSA will feel betrtayed that the US has allowed the situation to develop (and I know, KSA is all buddy-buddy with ISIL now, but I'm guessing they'll not be so friendly once they start feeling threatened by them). And if overtures were made to the West that would've invited their help to stop it, you really shouldn't be surprised if Iran—the Shi'a bulwark of the region—blames international inaction for the deaths of their brothers in Iraq.

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#58 ᗅᗺᗷᗅ

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Posted 26 June 2014 - 01:57 PM

Logically, Iraq should be three separate countries:  A Sunni state, a Shi'ite state, and a Kurdish state.  But the United states cannot allow this for a couple of reasons.  The first is that the existence of an independent Kurdish state would anger the Turks, or at least that has always been the conventional wisdom.  Recent developments have been hopeful that this situation is changing.  Perhaps this reflects a change in attitude in Ankara, but more likely it is simple pragmatism.  And independent Kurdish state on their border is better than an ISIS-controlled "caliphate."

 

This is also why the United States cannot abandon Iraq so easily.  If the current Iraqi regime collapses, ISIS will consolidate their control over the Sunni regions and will be an independent state, recognized or not.  And someone will recognize them.  Saudi Arabia, for one.

 

20140614_MAM914.png



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#59 *Anastasia

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Posted 26 June 2014 - 02:00 PM

Not that recognition means a whole hell of a lot in the grand scheme of things. The Taliban's Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan was only recognized by Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, and the UAE. They still effectively controlled the state regardless.

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#60 Thrash

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Posted 26 June 2014 - 02:02 PM



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