64 replies to this topic

[Alyster]

SILENCE

 

 

I KEEL JOO

[Redezra]

I'm intolerant of intolerance. :3

[Alyster]

I'm intolerant of intolerance. :3

 

I'm so sorry. No one should hate herself.

[Haflinger]

My neighbourhood doesn't have many Muslims in it. It's mostly Caribbean immigrants, retired people and broke twentysomethings of all derivations near me. Next door is some of the weirdest neighbours I've ever had. Initially, they appeared to be Caribbean evangelicals. However, their house is literally falling apart - we've reported it to the city a few times, because parts of the roof land in our yard periodically. That's their landlord's fault though. (Plus the city, which really hasn't done anything about it.) Still, the tenants allow garbage to pile up outside at an alarming rate (it attracts crows), and they don't seem to ever supervise their children, who have a habit of randomly throwing rocks.

 

The rest of the street is populated by normal people: not exactly a wealthy area, but people don't stockpile giant piles of black garbage bags in the backyard and people with kids look after them. When we moved here they used to have occasional prayer service, complete with music and so on. That seems to have stopped. So I don't know how conservative they are. Maybe politically they're really conservative; no idea really.

 

But I'd probably prefer a conservative Muslim family to living next to them.

[*Anastasia]

I'm intolerant of intolerance. :3

 
I'm so sorry. No one should hate herself.
 

+1

I think responses like Redezra's indicate an instantaneous reaction that 'conservative Muslim' automatically means 'DIE INFIDEL' (though perhaps the original post indicates that as the intention of the meaning with regard to the poll, I dunno). While I've never lived in the same community as conservative Muslims (Druze aside, as they didn't identify as 'Muslim'), I have lived in the same community as extremely conservative Christians: Roman Catholic, Ukrainian Orthodox, Seventh Day Adventist, and Jehovah's Witness. Many people I knew from these groups would outright tell you that if you weren't a part of their church, you were going to hell. But by and large they were still good people, and most of them were still great fun to hang out with so long as you avoided mentioning anything religious. One particular family of Witnesses I knew was the exception to this, as they preferred not to mingle a lot outside of their faith group.

So would I mind conservative Muslims moving in next door? Not at all. What makes them good or bad neighbors (or people in general) has absolutely nought to do with their faith or their politics.

[Jon32492]

I don't talk to any of my neighbors cause they are all ass holes. If a family of Muslims moved in, I'd never know it cause I wouldn't be talking to them. If they tried to push their religion on me, which I don't see happening anyways, then we'd have a problem. But otherwise, we'd probably never talk.

[Redezra]

I do not like their culture. It is based on an inherently dominion based religion that functioned as the structural backbone for a vast empire back in the dark ages. It's built to be a totalitarian ruling structure, that's why it works so well. Personally I like my culture thank you, and I have seen enough of europe to know that it's not a good thing to have a large Islamist population show up in your country.

 

I mean, Christianity just accidentally interferes with my life, and look at how much wrath it gets. Islam wants to shove it's dogmatic dick in my face and eliminate any option of me doing anything but being a "good islamic girl" and sucking it. Well fuck that, It's Free Castration Day and Redezra happens to be your friendly neighborhood hedge clipper wielding nurse.

 

I've given them leeway for a long time... then I went to Europe. Now I don't like them at all. Sorry if that makes anyone (especially you Sia-chan, I really do respect you) upset... but I can no longer play nice.

[Killman4]

Redezra, sometimes its nice to keep your mouth shut. Some of us ( I can speak for most) are tired of you being a prattler. 

[PrinceVegeta]

I for one wouldn't be bothered or really happy about it. However, I'd see this as a chance to become friends with them, and convert them over to a more peaceful, and sensible way of life, by dropping their current beliefs, and teaching them a more peaceful and constructive way of living. 

[*Anastasia]

I for one wouldn't be bothered or really happy about it. However, I'd see this as a chance to become friends with them, and convert them over to a more peaceful, and sensible way of life, by dropping their current beliefs, and teaching them a more peaceful and constructive way of living. 

Once again we see this presumption that conservative Muslims can't be 'peaceful or constructive'.

[PrinceVegeta]

Well, they're not really supposed to be peaceful and constructive until all the world is controlled by Muslims.(Hehe, I can already feel the heat)

 

The religious text that they go by, tells them to kill all infidels, as well as other things that aren't morally sound here in the west and in other countries other than the middle east. If they do not do that, they're not really a Muslim. I don't care about what they have to say. They can say "killing is wrong" and "women should be treated equally". That's all well and good, but in order to be a true Muslim, a true follower of all the principles of the Qur'an, they have to do what it says, and follow every command, and the things that are said in their, aren't all peaceful and constructive.

 

However, if you think they are truly Muslims, and are still capable of peaceful and constructive living, then they need another form of the Qur'an that condones that kind of conduct(Which I think they do already). However, that means that there are two ways of being a Muslim. Which then creates conflict. Who's the real Muslim? Who's really pleasing Allah? Which faith is false? Well obviously one side is going to say they're right, and the other side will do the same, and then there's fighting and confusion.

 

So I don't know about you, but I don't see any progression, or positive things going on there. Just a big blah.

[Haflinger]

The religious text that they go by, tells them to kill all infidels

I'm cutting the rest, because it's based on this claim. And it's just wrong. I've read the Koran.

Here is what the Koran says about what to do with unbelievers:
 
In the name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful.
Say: O unbelievers!
I do not serve that which you serve,
Nor do you serve Him Whom I serve:
Nor am I going to serve that which you serve,
Nor are you going to serve Him Whom I serve:
You shall have your religion and I shall have my religion.
 
That's it.
 
http://quod.lib.umic...IV0&byte=968503

 

The last place I used to live before this house, I was next door to an Arab-run grocery store. I got to know some of the staff there pretty well; they were what I would refer to as liberal Muslims. The owner was a conservative Muslim. He was sort of a jackass. But I don't think it was because of his religion, he just ... was that way.

[Manoka]

Islam is not, in particular, that evil, and to judge everyone and group everyone into a nice little group without recognizing their differences as individuals is just silly, no matter what group it is.

 

In general I have no problem with Islam; they want to spread their religion, who doesn't?

 

 

I feel as if crazy atheists are just upset because they have not established their view of what would be a great totalitarian regime on humanity.

 

So many of them want to shove their religious beliefs down other people's throat it's absurd.

 

 

The world would be better off without religion; that's what the Terrorists say, you know.

 

Because they don't view their religious beliefs, as well, beliefs, but absolute truth. Can they prove it, respect other people's beliefs? Nope, they have to try to trounce or step on them at a moment's notice, because I guess that makes them think their belief is better? It's sad really. If you can't accept the fact you might be wrong about something legitimately unprovable, because it would crush or knock over your delicately stacked house of cards, that you've asserted as the entire base of reality, you understand too little about the world and aren't really paying attention to what's important.

Edited by Manoka, 20 March 2013 - 06:09 PM.

[Alyster]

Well the polls are always up for people's interpretation. However I didn't have in mind a group which forms a real terrorist cell actually planning to blow something up, but rather ordinary people who are Muslims, pray several times a day, make their wives wear a veil etc. Which is why I said Muslim, not terrorist. 

 

I personally wouldn't mind. I mean I wouldn't like them that much if they'd be interfering with my life; but I think we could get along just fine from my part if we respect each other. And I don't see a reason why this shouldn't be the case. 

Edited by al-Yster, 20 March 2013 - 03:55 PM.

[Brandonreha]

Redezra, sometimes its nice to keep your mouth shut. Some of us ( I can speak for most) are tired of you being a prattler. 

+100000

 

Thank you.

[ᗅᗺᗷᗅ]

Whoah, whoah, whoah.  Let's be very careful, shall we, about suggesting that Western morality is somehow superior to... well anything, really.  The Bible is full of just as much objectionable shit as the Koran, the only difference is that in most Western countries religion doesn't rule the roost like it once did.  It's no mistake that the freest, most egalitarian countries with the highest standards of living are also the most atheistic.

 

Redezra, I have been to Europe too, and I would gently suggest that you take some of what you saw there with a grain of salt.  Europeans are not exactly known, by and large, for welcoming outsiders with open arms, after all.  Which is not to say that the Muslim communities in some countries have not deliberately stirred up trouble, because they most assuredly have done.  But there are two sides to this story, and a lot of ugliness on the European side.  Germans are especially bad.  I used to see it all the time with my own family.  You'd think they'd have learned their lesson, but no.  Sigh.

 

Anyway I've lived among the most conservative Muslims in the world in Saudi Arabia.  They make good neighbors because they're quiet and keep to themselves.

[Manoka]

Pssft, I mean, what's the point of tolerance, you should just kill everyone who is different from you!

[PrinceVegeta]

The religious text that they go by, tells them to kill all infidels

I'm cutting the rest, because it's based on this claim. And it's just wrong. I've read the Koran.

Here is what the Koran says about what to do with unbelievers:
 
In the name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful.
Say: O unbelievers!
I do not serve that which you serve,
Nor do you serve Him Whom I serve:
Nor am I going to serve that which you serve,
Nor are you going to serve Him Whom I serve:
You shall have your religion and I shall have my religion.
 
That's it.
 
http://quod.lib.umic...IV0&byte=968503

 

The last place I used to live before this house, I was next door to an Arab-run grocery store. I got to know some of the staff there pretty well; they were what I would refer to as liberal Muslims. The owner was a conservative Muslim. He was sort of a jackass. But I don't think it was because of his religion, he just ... was that way.

 

Hmm, well I've never read the Qur'an fully, but I was taught most of it about 3 years ago during a few bible studies I'd attend when I was a Christian. (Yes I was taught some Qur'an at a bible study, I brought the book in and shit just went on from there. )

 

However I will say, Haf, and anyone else I may have offended with the earlier post, forgive me. I have never heard or seen that particular passage, probably because I was taught the Qur'an from a Christian stand point and well...some of them don't like them too much. No one around me was Muslim, so I had to go to the only place where someone would know something about it. 

 

He taught it to me, from his "knowledge" and his reading, these particular verses pertaining to the killing and dominion and stuff:

 

 

 

"Slay them wherever ye find them and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution is worse than slaughter." Sura 2:191

 

"Allah is an enemy to unbelievers." - Sura 2:98

 

"Fight against them until idolatry is no more and Allah's religion reigns supreme."  - Sura 2:193 and 8:39

 

 

You can also find them here: http://www.usc.edu/o...qmt.php#002.191

 

Now if that there is wrong, and I was taught a false doctrine, then I apologize to anyone I may have offended, but that is pretty much how I attained my view of it. After that, I looked no further into reading the book, because he basically told me to get rid of it. I probably shouldn't of, and I somewhat regret it now, since I really needed a copy and never found time to go get one, a few months ago when I was conducting my own study of Middle Eastern Theology. 

[memoryproblems]

What's that Alice? A family of towelheads moved next door?

 

GET MY GUN..

 

Nah, not really. Who cares, I lived across the street from a pair of homosexuals, across the other street from a bunch of nasty trash, diagonal across the intersection from a crazy cat lady, down the street from softball players (obvious lesbians) and next door to prudes.

 

 

Well, they're not really supposed to be peaceful and constructive until all the world is controlled by Muslims.(Hehe, I can already feel the heat)

 

The religious text that they go by, tells them to kill all infidels, as well as other things that aren't morally sound here in the west and in other countries other than the middle east. If they do not do that, they're not really a Muslim. I don't care about what they have to say. They can say "killing is wrong" and "women should be treated equally". That's all well and good, but in order to be a true Muslim, a true follower of all the principles of the Qur'an, they have to do what it says, and follow every command, and the things that are said in their, aren't all peaceful and constructive.

 

However, if you think they are truly Muslims, and are still capable of peaceful and constructive living, then they need another form of the Qur'an that condones that kind of conduct(Which I think they do already). However, that means that there are two ways of being a Muslim. Which then creates conflict. Who's the real Muslim? Who's really pleasing Allah? Which faith is false? Well obviously one side is going to say they're right, and the other side will do the same, and then there's fighting and confusion.

 

So I don't know about you, but I don't see any progression, or positive things going on there. Just a big blah.

 

Have you ever read some of the shit they've got in the bible?

[PrinceVegeta]

Yes I have MP. That and the Torah, which isn't as bad..or really bad at all in my opinion.
 
The Bible has good morals and all, but when it starts to talk about the beginning and the end of things, and then some of the miracles, as well as some of the stories, it tends to go loon a bit.
 
Funny thing, all religions today got their morals from the first morals ever developed. The Code of Hammurabi is such an example, although, the code was a bit...barbaric in its means of dealing with law breakers, but it was still a law system that punished for rape, killing, stealing and other things I can't quite remember...the Code is long as hell. >_<
 
Just goes to show you don't need a God to tell you what is right and what's wrong. The question of if anything outside of Earth influenced him, that's a different thing. o.o 
 

 
Lol I just had to.