71 replies to this topic

[Shokkou]

Saying you "accidentally" did something is the only correct way. Saying you did something "on" accident or "by" accident is incorrect. The accident is not a person, place, or thing. You could neither have been on it nor by it when you did whatever you did.
 
Congratulations. You've just made me go full Grammar Nazi.

You don't sleep in a bed, either, you sleep on a bed. Are you going to try to tell me that the phrase, 'I'm in bed,' is grammatically incorrect?

And for what it's worth, 'by' doesn't have to indicate position. Your homework must be done by the due date. By can be an indicator of the cause of something, or to place responsibility for some event or action. 'Jane was hit by the truck,' might (incidentally) indicate the truck through position, but, 'Jane was put in the hospital by the truck,' indicates not that the hospital is adjacent to a truck, but that the truck which hit her was the cause of her hospitalization. Similarly, an accident can be that cause—so that morning, Jane put salt in her coffee by accident. An 'accident' was the cause of her putting salt in her coffee, as indicated by the word 'by' (and in this sentence, 'by' indicated that 'the word "by"' was the cause of the accident being indicated ).

Grammatik macht frei.

Yes I will. Your homework must be done "before" or "prior to" the due date. Both of your statements "Jane was hit by the truck" and "Jane was put in the hospital by the truck" are left with ambiguous meanings which could have been avoided had you used proper syntax. Did the truck strike Jane? Did someone or something else strike Jane adjacent to the truck? Did the truck put Jane in the hospital? Was Jane put in the hospital adjacent to the truck? The truck hit Jane. Jane was hospitalized as a result of the truck striking her.

[Haflinger]

I sleep in a bed. If I say, I slept on the bed last night, I mean I didn't get under the sheets.

[Shokkou]

Thank you for sharing. It is still grammatically incorrect.

[Haflinger]

Actually, "in" and "on" are grammatically identical. You're complaining about meaning.

[rotty]

looks like all the cool kids did something on accident  

[KiWi]

This is the best poll.

Anna. Never leave us again.

[ᗅᗺᗷᗅ]

in line:

 

on line:

 

Grammar Girl's article on "by accident" and "on accident." Bottom line: It's a generational thing. Kids and younger people (she didn't specify but I'm thinking early 20s and below) say "on accident," people older than that say "by accident."

 

LOVE the Grammar Police graphic.

[Justavictim82]

As said earlier in this thread by Carlin: "Fuck you I am getting in the plane. Evel Kenivel can get on the plane."

[ᗅᗺᗷᗅ]

As a general rule you say "in" for vehicles in which you must sit down and "on" for ones on which you can stand up and move around. Thus in a car and on a ship. Planes are kind of a grey area. We spend most of our time on them sitting down, but you can get up and walk around if you want to. Most people say on a plane, although fighter pilots and others who have to squeeze into tight cockpits (I used the word "cock" so I expect Nas to come a-runnin') might say in.

[*Anastasia]

(she didn't specify but I'm thinking early 20s and below)

According to Barratt's study, use of the two different versions appears to be distributed by age. Whereas on accident is common in people under 35, almost no one over 40 says on accident. Most older people say by accident. It's really amazing: the study says that “on is more prevalent under age 10, both on and by are common between the ages of 10 and 35, and by is overwhelmingly preferred by those over 35.” I definitely prefer by accident.

Apparently I'm old.

[*Anastasia]

As a general rule you say "in" for vehicles in which you must sit down and "on" for ones on which you can stand up and move around. Thus in a car and on a ship. Planes are kind of a grey area. We spend most of our time on them sitting down, but you can get up and walk around if you want to. Most people say on a plane, although fighter pilots and others who have to squeeze into tight cockpits (I used the word "cock" so I expect Nas to come a-runnin') might say in.

I always figured it was because ships occupied the same linguistic niche as islands—you're on an island, so you're on a ship. Planes just seemed to evolve from that, as 'air ships' which occupy a similar place in language (both ships and planes are 'vessels' in law, for instance).

[ᗅᗺᗷᗅ]

I'm not sure about the etymology. That's as good a theory as any!

[Shokkou]

Also, back to the original discussion, saying "by accident" doesn't even make sense if you want to argue the use of "by" to denote cause or responsibility. An accident is neither a cause nor can it have responsibility. When you say "Jane was hit by the truck," you are applying cause or responsibility to "the truck." This makes sense even if, as I stated before, it is still incorrect due to being syntactically ambiguous. The truck, the physical object, did indeed hit Jane. When you say "Jane put salt in her coffee by accident," you are applying cause or responsibility to "accident." This does not make sense. The accident did not put salt in Jane's coffee.

[Haflinger]

Accidents are causes. They lack purpose, but they certainly are causes. If you are in a car accident and your leg is broken, the accident is the cause of your injury.

[Shokkou]

Delta-V was the cause. The accident was merely a context. Also, that refers to a different type of accident than what we're talking about. An accident is not a cause when you do something unintentionally, as I stated previously. The accident does not turn off your computer. The accident does not put salt in your coffee. You do.

[Redezra]

It's by accident. Accident is a moniker for target fault where no fault generator exists. Therefore in certain circumstances it can be considered as an entity.

 

English is Perl. Distrust all you have previously trusted.

 

Another quirk of English is the concept of in bed, as has been previously stated. Knowing full well you cannot physically be inside a bed, this likely comes from the days of four poster beds where the "bed" consisted of not only the mattress and sheeting but also a cuboid area enclosed by the curtains of the bed. In this case, you were most certainly inside the bed. Thus, in bed.

 

 

 

What is important to note is that this makes no sense at a first glance, and is completely arbitrary. Whatever. It's normal. Arguing grammar in English is a strictly generational affair. Your idea of grammar is entirely different to say, Anna's idea of grammar. English is horrible like that.

However, that's also why I think it's the best language. It has no rules. It laughs in the face of strict constructs. It is freeform and can be added to in whichever way you want. And it effectively conveys meaning, partly via its structure, partly via context.

[Shokkou]

It's accidentally. There is a fault generator in the case of someone accidentally turning their computer off or putting salt in their coffee. The fault still lies with them. Automotive accidents are different.

[Redezra]

It's both. But it's completely idiotic to argue. I mean we may both agree that on accident is retarded, but someone thinks it's the way to go about it. English has no proper grammar anymore, it hasn't since the death of the Empire.

[Haflinger]

Hey, looks like we've got a real essentialist here in Shokkou. I'm too tired to argue Nietzsche vs. Plato again though.

[Dre4mwe4ver]

On the line.