78 replies to this topic

[wildbillhkhk]

Oooh! Ooooh!

Which OS is the best OS?

All Linux E'erthang, comp and ps3

[Redezra]

Technically, I think Windows is the best OS, mostly because I can do terrible and unearthly things on it.

[*Anastasia]

Windows 8 is a great OS. Windows 10 is invasive malware masquerading as an operating system.

At this point Linux is winning in my books solely by the terrible metric that it treats my computer as my computer, and not as the manufacturer's to tinker and play with at its whim (like Windows 10) or to lock me out of without any way to fundamentally tinker with myself without its approval (like OS X).

[Redezra]

Hey, Windows 10 is a great OS. I think the privacy problems people perceive in it are vastly overblown.

[*Anastasia]

Hey, Windows 10 is a great OS. I think the privacy problems people perceive in it are vastly overblown.

It wasn't just the privacy problems (though they were certainly an issue). It was it not allowing me to not install updates—and turning my computer on in the middle of the night to do them. It was it arbitrarily appearing to completely remove some programs I had installed (to the point that they didn't even appear in Program Files) despite the fact they were still there when I reverted to Windows 8. Oh, and it was the fact it (Windows 10) installed on my computer even though I specifically told it to wait.

Fuck everything about that operating system. Whenever Windows 8 becomes too obsolete to use, I'm going to Linux. There is not a chance in hell I'd willingly upgrade to Windows 10 again.

[Redezra]

Hey, Windows 10 is a great OS. I think the privacy problems people perceive in it are vastly overblown.

It wasn't just the privacy problems (though they were certainly an issue). It was it not allowing me to not install updates—and turning my computer on in the middle of the night to do them. It was it arbitrarily appearing to completely remove some programs I had installed (to the point that they didn't even appear in Program Files) despite the fact they were still there when I reverted to Windows 8. Oh, and it was the fact it (Windows 10) installed on my computer even though I specifically told it to wait.

Fuck everything about that operating system. Whenever Windows 8 becomes too obsolete to use, I'm going to Linux. There is not a chance in hell I'd willingly upgrade to Windows 10 again.

 

Wait, you didn't instead invest the effort into figuring out how to disable it's auto wake...thing?

 

I mean, I like linux, but I like windows more. Enough to deal with its more interesting decisions

[*Anastasia]

Hey, Windows 10 is a great OS. I think the privacy problems people perceive in it are vastly overblown.

It wasn't just the privacy problems (though they were certainly an issue). It was it not allowing me to not install updates—and turning my computer on in the middle of the night to do them. It was it arbitrarily appearing to completely remove some programs I had installed (to the point that they didn't even appear in Program Files) despite the fact they were still there when I reverted to Windows 8. Oh, and it was the fact it (Windows 10) installed on my computer even though I specifically told it to wait.
Fuck everything about that operating system. Whenever Windows 8 becomes too obsolete to use, I'm going to Linux. There is not a chance in hell I'd willingly upgrade to Windows 10 again.

Wait, you didn't instead invest the effort into figuring out how to disable it's auto wake...thing?

I mean, I like linux, but I like windows more. Enough to deal with its more interesting decisions

Thing is, I would've, if it hadn't already pissed me off and stressed me out as much as it had by that point. Stuff has caused priblems like that before, with Windows 7, and back then, yeah, I figured out what caused it and shut it down. But Windows 10 had already been such a headache for me, both figuratively and literally, that when I was woken up at three in the morning by my computer turning itself on, I was in no mood to put up with its shit any further.

Back when Vista died on me, I installed Ubuntu 10.04 and used it for a long time. I liked it a lot, and though it had its issues, it was a lot easier to find solutions than it ever has been for me to find solutions for Windows. When I finally gave up on my 7 machine, I survived off an Ubuntu LiveUSB drive for several months, and even that was a decent experience. Windows 8.1 has been good to me, but since reverting to it from 10, I've had a growing nunber of problems that seem to be caused by Microsoft dropping the ball on support for Metro apps since 10's release. At this point, though, the only thing keeping me on Windows at all is support for games. And sure, it'd really suck to lose support for a lot of the games I love if I had to move to Linux, but my entire user experience with 10 was so overwhelmingly negative, that's a sacrifice I'm willing to make when the time comes.

[Shokkou]

Windows 10 is the reason that my new laptop runs Ubuntu exclusively.

 

>Microsoft: "Windows 10 is coming out! Get in line for a free upgrade now while you still can!"

>Microsoft: "Windows 10 is out! We're still letting people get in on the free upgrades! Get it before we start charging!"

>Microsoft: "We're just going to make Windows 10 a recommended upgrade and make it increasingly difficult to avoid."

>Other tech people: "Hey guys, Windows 10 sends a lot of data back to Microsoft. You can't turn that fully off and it'll just turn itself back on anyway without your permission."

>Every Windows OS before this has cost a fair amount of money

>We live in a world where PRISM exists, and is known to exist

 

Really? Really? Really?

 

Windows 10 is shit. How much are they paying you to make these posts, Redezra? Does your paycheck come from Microsoft, or do you get it directly from the NSA?

Edited by Shokkou, 16 November 2015 - 07:35 AM.

[wildbillhkhk]

Technically, I think Windows is the best OS, mostly because I can do terrible and unearthly things on it.

Windows is nice and straight forward. I only use linux 'cause almost nobody else does and I don't like apple.

[wildbillhkhk]

Woah woah woah, this is for poll suggestions y'all.
But i miss the old windows, my dell tower still runs XP baby!

[Justavictim82]

Windows 10 is the reason that my new laptop runs Ubuntu exclusively.

 

>Microsoft: "Windows 10 is coming out! Get in line for a free upgrade now while you still can!"

>Microsoft: "Windows 10 is out! We're still letting people get in on the free upgrades! Get it before we start charging!"

>Microsoft: "We're just going to make Windows 10 a recommended upgrade and make it increasingly difficult to avoid."

>Other tech people: "Hey guys, Windows 10 sends a lot of data back to Microsoft. You can't turn that fully off and it'll just turn itself back on anyway without your permission."

>Every Windows OS before this has cost a fair amount of money

>We live in a world where PRISM exists, and is known to exist

 

Really? Really? Really?

 

Windows 10 is shit. How much are they paying you to make these posts, Redezra? Does your paycheck come from Microsoft, or do you get it directly from the NSA?

 

 

For the record, I do not disagree with anything you are saying here. 

[Redezra]

Windows 10 is the reason that my new laptop runs Ubuntu exclusively.

 

>Microsoft: "Windows 10 is coming out! Get in line for a free upgrade now while you still can!"

>Microsoft: "Windows 10 is out! We're still letting people get in on the free upgrades! Get it before we start charging!"

>Microsoft: "We're just going to make Windows 10 a recommended upgrade and make it increasingly difficult to avoid."

>Other tech people: "Hey guys, Windows 10 sends a lot of data back to Microsoft. You can't turn that fully off and it'll just turn itself back on anyway without your permission."

>Every Windows OS before this has cost a fair amount of money

>We live in a world where PRISM exists, and is known to exist

 

Really? Really? Really?

 

Windows 10 is shit. How much are they paying you to make these posts, Redezra? Does your paycheck come from Microsoft, or do you get it directly from the NSA?

 

Hey, the Australian Signals Directorate gets PRISM data, they're BFFs with the NSA. I don't have to be working for your government, I could just be working for mine.

 

And if you think that Open Source solutions are going to save you, you have another thing coming. They are in your firmware. They are in your microcontrollers. They are in your CPU. Unless you've personally replaced the firmware on those devices, you are at risk. 

 

You cannot win. To believe anything else is to deceive yourself. The only option people have is to make sure that the agencies that do watch everything are carefully monitored and are ethical. They aren't at the moment, I'll give it that, but trying to stop them watching your stuff is categorically impossible.

And you know what's even more of an unpopular opinion? The benefits of mass surveillance so far have outweighed the costs. Have you had your freedom impinged? Have they kicked down your door? Have you been rejected from a job because someone disapproves of your porn habits? No? Is there any evidence that this has been misused? Well, yes, but LOVEINT is not using mass surveillance to subdue and oppress the populace. You are currently acting out of fear. Until evidence arises that this is being used in a significantly malicious way, I have no problem with the NSA and friends watching everything.

[ᗅᗺᗷᗅ]

The benefits of mass surveillance so far have outweighed the costs.

 

Key words: "so far."

[Shokkou]

Windows 10 is the reason that my new laptop runs Ubuntu exclusively.

 

>Microsoft: "Windows 10 is coming out! Get in line for a free upgrade now while you still can!"

>Microsoft: "Windows 10 is out! We're still letting people get in on the free upgrades! Get it before we start charging!"

>Microsoft: "We're just going to make Windows 10 a recommended upgrade and make it increasingly difficult to avoid."

>Other tech people: "Hey guys, Windows 10 sends a lot of data back to Microsoft. You can't turn that fully off and it'll just turn itself back on anyway without your permission."

>Every Windows OS before this has cost a fair amount of money

>We live in a world where PRISM exists, and is known to exist

 

Really? Really? Really?

 

Windows 10 is shit. How much are they paying you to make these posts, Redezra? Does your paycheck come from Microsoft, or do you get it directly from the NSA?

 

Hey, the Australian Signals Directorate gets PRISM data, they're BFFs with the NSA. I don't have to be working for your government, I could just be working for mine.

 

And if you think that Open Source solutions are going to save you, you have another thing coming. They are in your firmware. They are in your microcontrollers. They are in your CPU. Unless you've personally replaced the firmware on those devices, you are at risk. 

 

You cannot win. To believe anything else is to deceive yourself. The only option people have is to make sure that the agencies that do watch everything are carefully monitored and are ethical. They aren't at the moment, I'll give it that, but trying to stop them watching your stuff is categorically impossible.

And you know what's even more of an unpopular opinion? The benefits of mass surveillance so far have outweighed the costs. Have you had your freedom impinged? Have they kicked down your door? Have you been rejected from a job because someone disapproves of your porn habits? No? Is there any evidence that this has been misused? Well, yes, but LOVEINT is not using mass surveillance to subdue and oppress the populace. You are currently acting out of fear. Until evidence arises that this is being used in a significantly malicious way, I have no problem with the NSA and friends watching everything.

It's an arms race, to be sure, but the simple fact of the matter is that for all their resources they cannot be everywhere. I may not be able to win with one option indefinitely, but I can win with multiple options over time. Sure, as those options become more mainstream they'll find ways to infiltrate but that's just when I have to push out further and find a new frontier to settle in. If they are trying to monitor everything (and they are) then they are already unethical in my book. Stopping them is only impossible by your own, skewed, perspective. You want it to be impossible so you can tell everyone it's not worth thinking about.

 

It is unpopular because it's false. There is no benefit mass surveillance could provide which would outweigh the cost. You can move the goalposts and create this scenario where only cartoonishly overblown abuses of power are cause for concern, but try to understand that your position then loses any basis in reality. I am acting out of principle, but feel free to keep swinging at that straw man and feverishly defending a system that has no respect for your own personal rights. Privacy is a basic human right. Disregarding it, regardless of intent, is evil.

 

Why are you so desperate to paint this as ok? Why is your kneejerk reaction to claim that anyone who disagrees is a fearmonger, Rothsdezra?

 

The benefits of mass surveillance so far have outweighed the costs.

 

Key words: "so far."

Key words:

Edited by Shokkou, 17 November 2015 - 02:06 PM.

[ᗅᗺᗷᗅ]

When the whole Snowden thing blew up I remember thinking how strange it was that nobody seemed to care. There was never the kind of public outrage I would have expected. I think it's because most people already suspected that the government was monitoring our internet activity. And maybe, deep down, we even kind of like it. There's a certain sense of security in the idea that there's a vast government apparatus keeping tabs on everyone. It reminds me of Anthony Hopkins' line from the film Instinct, “It's an amazing experience—the feeling of being watched over.” Of course in his case he was talking about an alpha male silverback gorilla watching over him, not an all-encompassing intelligence agency.

Given the choice I think I'd take the gorilla.

[KiWi]

Um. No I don't like it. Not even in the back of my mind.

---

P.S. Split this topic and added a poll. If you have a complaint, know I don't respect your choices and do whatever I want.

Would you like an upgrade?

[*Anastasia]

Um. No I don't like it. Not even in the back of my mind.

---

P.S. Split this topic and added a poll. If you have a complaint, know I don't respect your choices and do whatever I want.

Would you like an upgrade?

I have a complaint because when you do that I no longer get topic notifications.

No wait, for this topic, that's a benefit. And now I've ruined it by posting. FUCK.

[Shokkou]

I'm definitely not cool with it even deep down. I think that is the kind of subconscious duplicity you can only get by being a left-leaning libertarian.

 

As I said, Privacy is a basic right and disregarding it is evil. Now then, we accept that people who infringe on the rights of others sacrifice their own rights in doing so. This is why we imprison (revoke the right to freedom) from murderers (people who violate the right to life). If the government is infringing on our right to privacy, it sacrifices its right to govern. Plain and simple.

 

Furthermore: "The government is spying on you and there's nothing you can do about it. Just give up." OR "The government is spying on you, but there are ways to fight back and maintain some degree of privacy." Which of these sentiments is based on fear, again?

[KiWi]

Um. No I don't like it. Not even in the back of my mind.

---

P.S. Split this topic and added a poll. If you have a complaint, know I don't respect your choices and do whatever I want.

Would you like an upgrade?

I have a complaint because when you do that I no longer get topic notifications.

No wait, for this topic, that's a benefit. And now I've ruined it by posting. FUCK.
 

 
Um. Auto notifications? Just toggle it off now that you've posted

(I completely agree with you on everything you said about Windows 10. I couldn't give proof for its problems back when it was new and we were talking about it on these forums, but I'll just 'ditto' your tale as my proof going forward)
 

I'm definitely not cool with it even deep down. I think that is the kind of subconscious duplicity you can only get by being a left-leaning libertarian.
 
As I said, Privacy is a basic right and disregarding it is evil. Now then, we accept that people who infringe on the rights of others sacrifice their own rights in doing so. This is why we imprison (revoke the right to freedom) from murderers (people who violate the right to life). If the government is infringing on our right to privacy, it sacrifices its right to govern. Plain and simple.
 
Furthermore: "The government is spying on you and there's nothing you can do about it. Just give up." OR "The government is spying on you, but there are ways to fight back and maintain some degree of privacy." Which of these sentiments is based on fear, again?

yea I agree with you 100% too Shokkou.

[ᗅᗺᗷᗅ]

I honestly have no idea what systems are better at protecting your privacy, although I suspect that to a typical end user it makes little functional difference. The vast majority of people really do have nothing to hide, or at least nothing the NSA would be interested in. I'm more concerned with the use of metadata to manipulate our behavior. When the machines take over it won't be like Terminator. There won't be armed automatons herding us into pens. They won't have to. The artificial intelligences that we will eventually use to run every aspect of our lives will use psychology and metadata to manipulate us into behaving however they decide is best for us. And we won't even know it's happening.

 

The poll makes you pick an answer, so I just put the OS I use principally, OSX. It's okay. It's hard to say because I'm so used to it. But I have a Windows machine at work, and I like the Mac better. Again, that's probably just familiarity. There is a widespread belief in the Apple community that Macs are more secure on all levels, but frankly it strikes me as a bunch of bullshit.

I want a computer that has an interface that seems human. It doesn't actually have to be self-aware, it just has to be sophisticated enough to make it seem that way.