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Sanders v. Clinton

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#1 ᗅᗺᗷᗅ

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Posted 12 February 2016 - 07:29 PM

We live in interesting political times.

 

Once again the inevitable candidate, Hillary Clinton, has been blindsided by a movement she neither understands nor appreciates. In 2008 she got her shit together and fought Barack Obama all the way to the end. She almost — almost — beat him. And Bernie Sanders is no Barack Obama. Don't get me wrong, I love Bernie. But facts is facts. For the time being, at least, Sanders does not enjoy as widespread or diverse a base of support as Obama did in 2008. Here's what I think is going to happen:

 

The next two contests are Nevada and South Carolina. Up until today, there hadn't been a Nevada poll since Christmas, when Hillary Clinton was way ahead. Nevada is notoriously difficult to poll because of its large transient population and explosive growth. Plus it's a caucus, which are notoriously difficult to poll to begin with. So very few organizations are willing to waste the money. But in a new poll released today, Sanders and Clinton are dead even at 45%. That does not bode well for the Lady Clinton. No doubt her ladyship is displeased this evening.

 

I think Nevada will prove to be fertile ground for Sander's talk of income inequality, and he would do well to focus the bulk of his attention there. South Carolina is probably out of reach for him — although he could no doubt close the gap. Still, as Hillary learned in New Hampshire, a 30-point gap is a tough gap to close. And that's where the latest SC polls have the race there, Clinton 62% to Sanders 32.5%. If he could close that to within single digits it would be a huge moral victory, but I don't think he could do that without sacrificing Nevada. Bernie should hit hard there, and rack up another win.

 

So, Bernie wins Nevada, Clinton wins South Carolina but not by as much as she thinks. Young black voters are going to turn out for Bernie the way young women turned out for him, and for the same reason — they are not beholden to the old political compacts of their parents' generation. I bet he closes the gap to 15 points, say Clinton 55% to Sanders 40%.

 

So they'll go into Super Tuesday two for two, but with Clinton more wounded than Bernie.

 

Now, Bernie will undoubtedly win a few states on Super Tuesday, but in general the calendar looks more friendly to Clinton. I'll do a state-by-state assessment in another post, but consider this: 60% of the delegates will have been won by the end of March. Even if Bernie only averaged 35%, about one-third of the votes/delegates, he would still deny Clinton the nomination until almost May. That's a long, harrowing Spring for Team Clinton. Anything could happen.

Bernie has Secret Service protection now. I bet Hillary wishes she'd Vince Fostered him when she had the chance.

 

I am torn between what I want to happen and what I think will happen. What I want is for Bernie to run the table, snatch the nomination, and be elected the 45th President of the United States.

 

But, pragmatically, I think Hillary Clinton will triumph in the end. I don't think Sanders will appeal to as broad and deep a coalition as Obama in '08, and remember, Hillary still almost won that time. I think she'll pull it out this time. I think Bernie will be rewarded with a more progressive party platform, a progressive VP choice (Elizabeth Warren?), and a big, prime-time speaking slot at the convention where he can rage against the machine.

 





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#2 Ordo

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Posted 12 February 2016 - 07:49 PM

While I feel you may be correct, please try and remember that this is a different sort of election than people are used to.  This is the point where the younger generations are going to come out in force.  Some people aren't too concerned about that, however, the younger generation now outnumbers the babyboomers, and can really tip the scale if they choose to go out and vote.  I think that is going to be the biggest thing.  Getting 18 year olds, and 20 year olds to go vote.  

 

Hilary Clinton is transparent.  Her obvious attempts at adopting policy and flip flopping on major issues is in everyone's faces.  The fact that she uses the "I'm a women" thing upsets me.  I'm sure other's are taken back by it.  I don't recall Obama stating that he should be president because he would be the first Black president.  Her sense of entitlement and ego will be her undoing.  It is the age of the internet, where the entirety of human knowledge is available at your fingertips.  It is easier than ever to fact check someone, and see if what they say is true.

 

Bernie Sanders has been consistent with his message from the very start of his political career.  The same cannot be said for Hilarity Clinton.

 

 

Also, fact checking millennials vs baby boomer comment - JUNE 25, 2015 — Millennials, or America’s youth born between 1982 and 2000, now number 83.1 million and represent more than one quarter of the nation’s population. Their size exceeds that of the 75.4 million baby boomers, according to new U.S. Census Bureau estimates released today. 

 

https://www.census.g...5/cb15-113.html



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#3 Allant

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Posted 12 February 2016 - 09:07 PM

My father, a man born and raised and never living outside of Kansas, a fervent Rush Limbaugh listener, a despiser of poor people  told me last night he was voting for Bernie because everyone else sounds like a liar and Bernie is the only one that despite being far off on issues with my father is the only person in the race he believes makes sense. I was shocked.

 

 

Actually I think my dad is slowly becoming liberalish is his old age, I always thought the reverse happened. 


Edited by Allant, 12 February 2016 - 09:07 PM.


#4 ᗅᗺᗷᗅ

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Posted 12 February 2016 - 09:42 PM

If the youth vote really does come out and vote it would indeed be game changing. Not to mention ironic, if the youth vote elects a 74-year-old president. The problem is that the mythical "youth vote" has been promised for many an election, but it never seems to turn up. So I'm jaded by history. You're right, this does feel different, and that's why I hope I'm wrong. 



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#5 HordeLorde

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Posted 13 February 2016 - 01:11 AM

I think alot of youth hear the words "Free College" and go f"uck yeah sanders is my man."

i agree with the idea that Clinton is running on the premise that it's her turn.



#6 the rebel

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Posted 13 February 2016 - 06:06 AM

The problem is that the mythical "youth vote" has been promised for many an election, but it never seems to turn up. So I'm jaded by history.


Because the youth vote have been out the night before getting wasted and in their pit hungover and because on games forget to vote.

*this announcement brought to you by a stubborn old man*

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#7 slimshadyinc

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Posted 14 February 2016 - 12:50 AM

Alot of people my age (millennial) don't care for voting. They all say they would vote for Bernie but none of them will actually go out and vote. I find this most disappointing.

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#8 Alex0827a

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Posted 14 February 2016 - 12:34 PM

I actually am not a huge fan of anyone that's running. I would prefer Cruz over Sanders or Clinton, but of those two I'd rather have Sanders because he at least means what he says, even if I disagree with a lot of it.



#9 ᗅᗺᗷᗅ

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Posted 14 February 2016 - 09:53 PM

I wonder how many hours Ted Cruz spent perfecting his pauses and intonation?



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#10 ᗅᗺᗷᗅ

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Posted 20 February 2016 - 06:07 PM

Over the past two weeks or so, it feels like the Bernie excitement is starting to crest. This is certainly born out in Nevada, where, with 81% reporting, Hillary Clinton has won a fairly convincing victory, 52-48%. This is bad news for Bernie, who needed this victory to counterbalance what is sure to be a blowout next week in South Carolina. Then they go into Super Tuesday, which is not friendly to Bernie. I have listed potential Bernie wins in green, Hillary's in purple.

 

Alabama

Arkansas

Colorado

Georgia

Massachusetts

Minnesota

Oklahoma

Tennessee

Texas

Vermont

Virginia

 

Some of these are not sure things. Colorado, Massachusetts, and Minnesota are places where the political lay of the land favors Bernie, but Clintonland undoubtedly has friends in all these places. On the other hand, Oklahoma is one Southern state where Bernie's arguments could potentially find traction. If a stronger Bernie wind were blowing, like if he had won Nevada, Oklahoma might be in play.

 

Bernie will have some wins, there is no question of that. But looking at Super Tuesday and afterward, it is difficult to see a path to victory for him. More likely he will win about one-third of the delegates, and Hillary Clinton will win the other two-thirds. At that rate, he would be able to go on for a long time, denying her the lock until late April.



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#11 slimshadyinc

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Posted 20 February 2016 - 09:14 PM

It's all over now. America is screwed. Trump or Clinton pick your evil.

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#12 ᗅᗺᗷᗅ

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Posted 21 February 2016 - 12:29 AM

Yeah, this was not a great night for Bernie Sanders. He really needed a win tonight in Nevada to maintain his momentum going into Super Tuesday on March 1st, when even a good night would still leave him with only 4 wins to Clinton's 8. That would bring the total, calling Iowa a tie, to 10-5-1 in Hillary Clinton's favor. You can't win the nomination if your opponent keeps winning twice as many elections.

 

Unfortunately, the calendar is not Bernie's friend. There are a handful of caucus states in early March that look Bernie-friendly (Kansas, Nebraska, and Maine, the last of which is probably a gimme), but none of them have many delegates. The next big state where Bernie stands a chance is Michigan on March 8, followed by Ohio and Illinois (Hillary Clinton's home state, if that counts for anything). But all three of these have much more diverse populations than Iowa and New Hampshire, still Bernie's strongest two showings. He will have to fight a lot harder in these places. And he will probably win a few, must Hillary will win most of them. Even if he averages 35% of the delegates, Hillary Clinton will have it locked up by the end of April. If he really gave her a fight he could deny it to her until May. But that's it. There's really no realistic path to him winning. If he had outright won Iowa, then won New Hampshire, then Nevada, and then put in at least a respectable showing in South Carolina (less than a 10-point spread)... if he were ten years younger... 

The Lady Clinton will undoubtedly bear the Democratic banner into electoral battle this Fall. The only real questions are who she will be fighting, and who will fight by her side.



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#13 Redezra

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Posted 21 February 2016 - 08:23 AM

Over the past two weeks or so, it feels like the Bernie excitement is starting to crest. This is certainly born out in Nevada, where, with 81% reporting, Hillary Clinton has won a fairly convincing victory, 52-48%. This is bad news for Bernie, who needed this victory to counterbalance what is sure to be a blowout next week in South Carolina. Then they go into Super Tuesday, which is not friendly to Bernie. I have listed potential Bernie wins in green, Hillary's in purple.

 

Alabama

Arkansas

Colorado

Georgia

Massachusetts

Minnesota

Oklahoma

Tennessee

Texas

Vermont

Virginia

 

Some of these are not sure things. Colorado, Massachusetts, and Minnesota are places where the political lay of the land favors Bernie, but Clintonland undoubtedly has friends in all these places. On the other hand, Oklahoma is one Southern state where Bernie's arguments could potentially find traction. If a stronger Bernie wind were blowing, like if he had won Nevada, Oklahoma might be in play.

 

Bernie will have some wins, there is no question of that. But looking at Super Tuesday and afterward, it is difficult to see a path to victory for him. More likely he will win about one-third of the delegates, and Hillary Clinton will win the other two-thirds. At that rate, he would be able to go on for a long time, denying her the lock until late April.

 

It's all over now. America is screwed. Trump or Clinton pick your evil.

 



#14 slimshadyinc

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Posted 21 February 2016 - 03:04 PM

Any ideas on which country an uneducated worker should move to if Donald Trump becomes president? I like the UK but I don't think I wanna be in Europe if Trump starts a war with Russia. Perhaps Australia?

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#15 ᗅᗺᗷᗅ

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Posted 21 February 2016 - 03:35 PM

Canada. Cape Breton Island is actively encouraging Trump refugees to move there.



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#16 Redezra

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Posted 21 February 2016 - 08:49 PM

Yeah go to canada. It's not exactly the immigrant paradise here.



#17 slimshadyinc

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Posted 22 February 2016 - 07:15 AM

Canada. Cape Breton Island is actively encouraging Trump refugees to move there.


How in the world did you ever find out about this?

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#18 Panginoon

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Posted 24 February 2016 - 04:05 AM

Canada. Cape Breton Island is actively encouraging Trump refugees to move there.


How in the world did you ever find out about this?

 

There is also http://www.tedcruzforamerica.com/

 

Canada is win.



#19 ᗅᗺᗷᗅ

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Posted 24 February 2016 - 02:00 PM

Canada. Cape Breton Island is actively encouraging Trump refugees to move there.


How in the world did you ever find out about this?

 

There have been a lot of stories about it in the media.



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#20 ᗅᗺᗷᗅ

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Posted 24 February 2016 - 02:02 PM

Yeah go to canada. It's not exactly the immigrant paradise here.

 

I have a friend in Melbourne who is always trying to get me to immigrate. He did it about ten years ago (from the US) and has had a great experience. But then he's a white professional. I imagine that helps.



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