82 replies to this topic

[Haflinger]

I do too, but they're not videogames.

Well I like some of them. Most of them are crap of course, like everything else in this world. But a careful examination of my house where I have about a thousand books on shelves will reveal that I do read things from time to time, yes.

[Justavictim82]

Funnily enough, I fucking love books.

So do I. That being said is it too hard to ask for a game with a good story and difficulty?

[Redezra]

Well, only as long as I can either play it on hyper non difficult mode to enjoy the story, or cheat to the same effect.

 

I think it's because being the character is very engrossing. Far more so than books often are.  I mean there are a lot of exceptions, like the His Dark Materials trilogy, for example, that are more gripping. Trick is, a book has to be *really good* for it to drag you in that much. Games just have to be mediocre for the same effect. A good game is infinitely more personal than a movie, or book, can usually be.

[Shokkou]

Ok, but in a book the character faces challenges and has difficulty along the way. If they didn't, it'd be a really boring book. Games are the same way in that sense. If there isn't challenge and difficulty in reaching the end, there's no sense of achievement and it cheapens the story. Who cares if you saved the universe if it had no challenge associated with it? Then you're not some great hero who is the only hope... you're a glorified repair man for the rest of the population of the in-game universe who were too lazy to do it themselves.

 

Mediocre games don't generally pull me in, which is probably why I got fed up with Borderlands (which Destiny has been said to have a similar style to). Maybe I'm just picky, but then again there are so many games out there I think I can afford to be. Heck, I would even go so far as to say there are enough good games out there that I can't afford to be anything but. If I'm going to play a game, I expect engaging gameplay as well as a good story. In fact, if the gameplay is enjoyable enough it can make up for a simple or nonexistent story (which is why I love BF2142). On the other hand, if the gameplay is not interesting and engaging I generally won't be drawn into the story (which is probably why I will never play an MMO).

[Haflinger]

The thing I like about games is the excitement. If the challenge isn't there, then it just becomes boring.

[Redezra]

That's all fine and wonderful, but then there's Dear Esther and that's so emotionally involving it makes me cry every time.

[Shokkou]

Dear Esther is more of a VN than a game, if you think about it.

[Haflinger]

I have no knowledge of this thing you speak of.

[Redezra]

Dear Esther is more of a VN than a game, if you think about it.

VN's are like comics. Dear Esther is not a comic. Dear Esther is a game.

[Redezra]

fyi, Haf:

 

[Haflinger]

Trailer looks pretty, has nearly no content.

 

Hmmm. Anyone else here ever play Siren? Old PS2 game by Sony. One of the absolute best games I've ever played, just an absolutely freaky experience. The sequel was never released in North America, sigh, so I've never played it.

 

 

Anyway Siren is brutally hard. But a lot of what makes it so great is that the story comes out as you play it, and it's ... bizarre and yet really draws you in. Still you have to beat the levels to see it unfold. Every time you beat one, especially when you get near to the end, it's like peeling an onion and the feeling of triumph I got when I beat the finale ... almost made me forget that I was sick as a dog with the flu which is why I'd been in bed all day playing videogames. lol.

 

That was years ago now and I can still visualize where I was when I did it.

[Shokkou]

Dear Esther is more of a VN than a game, if you think about it.

VN's are like comics. Dear Esther is not a comic. Dear Esther is a game.

Your only option to progress is to walk forward following the path and you get narrative dumps at certain points. That's not unlike pressing the "next" button and having the next bit of the story occur. It's a VN with non-discrete segments, but it is definitely closer to a VN than it is to a game.

 

Haf: Sadly, the various generations of Playstation have always managed to elude my budget so I haven't played any of their exclusive games.

[Haflinger]

I bought a PS2 many years ago for a fairly small amount of cash. All I can remember playing on it was GTA III, GTA:VC, Siren and Gladius. There were probly others though. I had a hard cap of refusing to pay more than $20 for a game, and got most of those for around $10.

 

I'm pretty cheap. Right now I'm actually playing Perfect Dark Zero which I got for five bucks. Wooo.

[Justavictim82]

I bought a PS2 many years ago for a fairly small amount of cash. All I can remember playing on it was GTA III, GTA:VC, Siren and Gladius. There were probly others though. I had a hard cap of refusing to pay more than $20 for a game, and got most of those for around $10.

I'm pretty cheap. Right now I'm actually playing Perfect Dark Zero which I got for five bucks. Wooo.

It may be a bit out of the 20 budget but Final Fantasy Tactics. I have a hard-on for turn-based strategies and the story is absolutely fantastic. If you like RPG's, I recommend any of the Star Ocean series.

[Redezra]

 

Dear Esther is more of a VN than a game, if you think about it.

VN's are like comics. Dear Esther is not a comic. Dear Esther is a game.

Your only option to progress is to walk forward following the path and you get narrative dumps at certain points. That's not unlike pressing the "next" button and having the next bit of the story occur. It's a VN with non-discrete segments, but it is definitely closer to a VN than it is to a game.

 

Haf: Sadly, the various generations of Playstation have always managed to elude my budget so I haven't played any of their exclusive games.

Noooo it's not. You're walking around. Also, I reiterate, VN's are static, Dear Esther is not.

 

Although, to be honest, I classify videogames as "Interactive electronic media with the intent of being entertaining".

[Shokkou]

I'm sure you could write a VN where the story changes slightly each time you play. The fact is the level of interactivity is very much on the level of a VN, even if it takes the form of walking from segment to segment rather than jumping between them. Case closed.

 

I've played Tactics Advanced, but not FFT itself. Did they still have the Judges in that one, because those fucks pissed me off and I quit playing Advanced because of them. :v

[Redezra]

That's not the point. VN's consist of pages that do nothing. No movement, no anything.

 

Essentially, I highly object to the idea that clicking next passively is the same as actively playing.

[Justavictim82]

I'm sure you could write a VN where the story changes slightly each time you play. The fact is the level of interactivity is very much on the level of a VN, even if it takes the form of walking from segment to segment rather than jumping between them. Case closed.

 

I've played Tactics Advanced, but not FFT itself. Did they still have the Judges in that one, because those fucks pissed me off and I quit playing Advanced because of them. :v

 

I have played both. While Advanced was solid, it does not even hold a candle to the original. If you are an Android device, you can download the game (now know as Final Fantasy Tactics: The War of the Lions). 

[Shokkou]

That's not the point. VN's consist of pages that do nothing. No movement, no anything.

 

Essentially, I highly object to the idea that clicking next passively is the same as actively playing.

It has the soul of a VN, even if it is not one in a literal sense. What active role are you taking in Dear Esther? You are moving from scene to scene and having the story relayed to you by a third party. You have no direct involvement in the events or outcome, unless you decide to throw yourself into the sea - and even that basically only gives you a game over and boots you back to an autosave.

 

Let's take a look at the differences between Dear Esther and a traditional VN, shall we? You hold down a button to move from one scene to the next, rather than clicking and being taken from scene to scene. There is an environment between scenes. That's really about it. I could very easily take still shots of scenery from the game and put subtitles to the narration and make Dear Esther into a literal VN and the experience wouldn't change much. I couldn't do that with, say, Morrowind.

[Redezra]

But it's not. You are personally invested in Dear Esther. You are a character. You are wandering a landscape. You are investigating. You are learning.

 

In a VN, you are a passive observer.

 

They are not the same. Even mildly. You do not take an active role in VNs.

 

 

 

And you can feel the difference too. I hate VNs, they're boring. I cannot put Dear Esther, or A Machine For Pigs down.

Edited by Redezra, 08 October 2014 - 11:11 PM.