Jump to content


Photo

Zimmerman


  • Please log in to reply
168 replies to this topic

#61 ᗅᗺᗷᗅ

ᗅᗺᗷᗅ

    The Invictan Formerly Known as Jorost

  • Lord Protector
  • 16192 posts
  • Gender:Household pet that walked across the keyboard - male
  • Location:Massachusetts
  • Ruler Name:Jorost
  • Nation Name:Invicta Crownlands
  • IRC Nick:Jorost
  • Alliance Name:Invicta
  • Nation Link






Posted 15 July 2013 - 07:21 PM

He was a wannabe loser who should have minded his own business.  He didn't, and now a kid is dead.  No after-the-fact justifications about his supposed "duty" can justify that.  But whatever.  I'm tired of arguing about it.  The verdict has been rendered, George Zimmerman is a free man.  Now he can spend the rest of his life looking over his shoulder and wishing he'd kept his fat ass in his truck like the dispatcher told him.



Member Awards ()

#62 PrinceVegeta

PrinceVegeta

    Prince of all Saiyans

  • Peer
  • 3156 posts
  • Gender:Mortal angel (fell in love with mortal woman)
  • Ruler Name:Ramelon
  • Nation Name:Jotunheim
  • IRC Nick:PrinceVegeta
  • Alliance Name:Invicta
  • Nation Link



Posted 15 July 2013 - 08:17 PM

Eh, people really should just suck it up. I mean, especially the people down here. Most of them are black, and they get so enraged when someone who ISN'T black gets one of their own, but seem to not care much when someone from their end goes out and murders someone, like 3 days ago.

 

4 black teens murdered a white guy. No one really even cares. It's really selfish. 

 

However, seeing all of these people angry over something that really isn't a big deal is kinda funny. Normally, I'd be pissed that I live around such ignorant, selfish fools, but this time I'm having a good time reading all of these idiotic facebook posts.



Member Awards ()

#63 Thrash

Thrash

    not as gay

  • Former Member
  • 9559 posts
  • Location:Poconos, PA
  • Ruler Name:Thrash
  • Nation Name:Machas
  • IRC Nick:Thrash[Invicta]
  • Nation Link

Posted 15 July 2013 - 08:37 PM

but seem to not care much when someone from their end goes out and murders someone, like 3 days ago.

 

4 black teens murdered a white guy. No one really even cares. It's really selfish.



Member Awards ()

#64 ᗅᗺᗷᗅ

ᗅᗺᗷᗅ

    The Invictan Formerly Known as Jorost

  • Lord Protector
  • 16192 posts
  • Gender:Household pet that walked across the keyboard - male
  • Location:Massachusetts
  • Ruler Name:Jorost
  • Nation Name:Invicta Crownlands
  • IRC Nick:Jorost
  • Alliance Name:Invicta
  • Nation Link






Posted 15 July 2013 - 08:45 PM

This case was inherently interesting.  A white guy killed by black guys isn't very interesting if they all happen to be criminals, for example.  There were racial issues, gun issues, and societal issues at play here.  Of course it was going to get attention.  No doubt it will continue to do so.  Certainly the so-called "stand your ground" law is going to get a thorough public vetting now.  I think most people agree that you shouldn't be able to pick a fight with someone and then shoot them when they fight back, but as it's written that's essentially what the "stand your ground" law allows.



Member Awards ()

#65 ᗅᗺᗷᗅ

ᗅᗺᗷᗅ

    The Invictan Formerly Known as Jorost

  • Lord Protector
  • 16192 posts
  • Gender:Household pet that walked across the keyboard - male
  • Location:Massachusetts
  • Ruler Name:Jorost
  • Nation Name:Invicta Crownlands
  • IRC Nick:Jorost
  • Alliance Name:Invicta
  • Nation Link






Posted 15 July 2013 - 09:01 PM

Juror: Zimmerman should have stayed in the car

 

This is what I'm talking about.  I don't think this was ever a murder case, it was always manslaughter.  Unlike Haf, I don't think George Zimmerman set out to kill Trayvon Martin.  But his actions led to a situation in which that is what happened.  I think the prosecution overreached.  It almost smacks of a fix.  Think of it: The authorities don't really want to charge him with anything but, under enormous political pressure to do so, they charge him with a crime they know they cannot convict him of.  That way no one can say they didn't try.

 

I think that's exactly what happened.



Member Awards ()

#66 Thrash

Thrash

    not as gay

  • Former Member
  • 9559 posts
  • Location:Poconos, PA
  • Ruler Name:Thrash
  • Nation Name:Machas
  • IRC Nick:Thrash[Invicta]
  • Nation Link

Posted 15 July 2013 - 09:11 PM

Overreached? You mean when they tried to claim child abuse? :)



Member Awards ()

#67 Locke

Locke

    True and Righteous Hero of CN!

  • Former Member
  • 497 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Ruler Name:Locke
  • Nation Name:Alestor
  • IRC Nick:Locke
  • Alliance Name:Global Order of Darkness
  • Nation Link

Posted 15 July 2013 - 10:49 PM

No, forensic evidence didn't prove that. In fact the evidence I read about suggested that the kid was running away when he was shot.

If I recall correctly, forensic evidence showed that the gun contacted his clothes and that it was approximately four inches from his chest. This is consistent with him being shot while on top of Zimmerman, with his clothes hanging down.

Honestly, this is ridiculous. Haf, the evidence as according to the trial shows that he fired in self defence. Now whether he was supposed to be there, or picked the fight with the kid is irrelevant. The USA has legal firearms. Therefore, if you're in trouble, shooting the guy is an inherently legal choice. So, he was never going to be convicted.

That's not how the law works. Using a weapon is not inherently legal if it's determined that it would be unreasonable to consider your life in danger at the time in which you use it. The defense showed that Martin inflicted some fairly serious injuries on Zimmerman and could be considered reasonable to use deadly force under the local laws. The jury happened to agree with this viewpoint and ruled not guilty. Laws about deadly force apply to all kinds of weapons as well as killing someone with your bare hands, not just guns, and the fact that he used a gun is mostly irrelevant. Any deadly force falls under the same rules.

It was Zimmerman's mistake to disregard the dispatcher's directive to continue following Martin, which allowed this to happen in the first place. He may have confronted Martin or Martin may have confronted him, but there's no evidence strong enough to prove either way in court. Who started the altercation isn't terribly important at this point though. If Martin did start it, it could be considered self-defense on his part (though the most prudent course of action would have been to call the police and to go home with all haste). If Zimmerman was the first to make it physical, it's still Martin's prerogative to defend himself. Either way he's not committed a crime. Zimmerman will have committed one (assault) if he started it, and not committed any violent crime otherwise (I don't know how Florida's laws handle stalking).

Once the fighting started both men are defending themselves. Martin is defending himself from someone who was following him and could possibly have the intent to hurt him, and Zimmerman is defending himself because it's quite clear that he was taking severe blows to the head. Deadly force in retaliation would have been reasonable in the eyes of the law from either side. It's sad that it got to such a point, but that's what the laws of the state dictate. Whether or not those laws should stand as they are is another debate, and something that will be examined closely now I'm sure, but the laws in force at the time allow for this verdict.

However, I don't think it can be ignored that Zimmerman hunted Martin down and eventually took his life. Regardless of how he felt (and self-defense hinges on if you think your life is danger), I don't think that the use of deadly force was necessary here. Even considering that Martin was attacking him before he pulled the trigger, he was the one who has the fault of allowing this to happen in the first place by following Martin, again against a directive from law enforcement to cease pursuit. He definitely should have been charged with something. Murder requires intent, and regardless of personal views there is no evidence that can prove in court that he went into this intending to murder someone. There is, however, plenty of evidence that he did kill someone, and that it was his actions that lead to this occurring. This is what manslaughter was made for, and would be perfectly appropriate. If you believe that Martin threw the first punch, then a not guilty verdict is plausible, or perhaps some lesser charge that addresses his actions that lead up to the conflict up to and including manslaughter. If Zimmerman did start the fight, manslaughter would be the minimum charge, at least in my opinion. I'm not a legal expert, but that's my appraisal of events.

As to who actually did strike first...I'm split. There's no evidence that proves one way or another, but there is some evidence that supports both sides. Martin may have done so because it seems he had the option to escape and chose not to. Perhaps he was under the belief he could not or should not, I don't know, but it is at least possible he could have thought he had a reason to confront Zimmerman and thus attack first. Zimmerman may have done so because he (however mistaken he was) felt that Martin was a danger in the community and wanted to apprehend him. Either way though it was just a pile of bad decisions that ended up in a death, and it was Zimmerman's fault. I don't think he committed murder (in the legal definition), but he should have faced some sort of punishment for what he did (killing a kid).

Overreached? You mean when they tried to claim child abuse? :)

I think that was simultaneously the funniest and saddest thing I saw all trial.

Member Awards ()

#68 Redezra

Redezra

    ~>:BAMF:<~

  • Invicta: Knight
  • 7728 posts
  • Gender:Sentient artificial intelligence - identifies as female
  • Location::D
  • Ruler Name:Redezra
  • Nation Name:Jorostopia
  • IRC Nick:Redezra
  • Alliance Name:Invicta
  • Nation Link


Posted 15 July 2013 - 10:55 PM

I think, regardless of any and all dissenting opinion, that justice has been served. I honestly believe it is Trayvon's own bloody fault for attacking a guy in the first place. He didn't have the need to punch Zimmerman, let alone pummel him on the ground. This is entirely a result of his own stupid actions, and I feel sorry that Zimmerman has to live with any guilt whatsoever.



#69 Haflinger

Haflinger

    Flipper

  • Foreign Diplomat
  • 10259 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Ruler Name:Haflinger
  • Nation Name:Llonach
  • IRC Nick:Haflinger
  • Nation Link

Posted 16 July 2013 - 07:12 AM

That's pretty much the attitude I expect from an Australian: it's entirely Martin's own fault, he shouldn't have been a black man.



Member Awards ()

#70 Redezra

Redezra

    ~>:BAMF:<~

  • Invicta: Knight
  • 7728 posts
  • Gender:Sentient artificial intelligence - identifies as female
  • Location::D
  • Ruler Name:Redezra
  • Nation Name:Jorostopia
  • IRC Nick:Redezra
  • Alliance Name:Invicta
  • Nation Link


Posted 16 July 2013 - 07:29 PM

Haf, I did not say that. I said, he should not have fought someone who was likely to be concealing a god damn firearm.

 

I don't care what bloody race you are, you don't fight someone with that kind of materiel advantage if you have any wish to live.

 

 

I'm appauled at you. Sheilding yourself from arguments by just assuming racism on my part is ... well it's not what I expect from you at all.


Edited by Redezra, 16 July 2013 - 07:30 PM.


#71 ᗅᗺᗷᗅ

ᗅᗺᗷᗅ

    The Invictan Formerly Known as Jorost

  • Lord Protector
  • 16192 posts
  • Gender:Household pet that walked across the keyboard - male
  • Location:Massachusetts
  • Ruler Name:Jorost
  • Nation Name:Invicta Crownlands
  • IRC Nick:Jorost
  • Alliance Name:Invicta
  • Nation Link






Posted 16 July 2013 - 08:46 PM

Well, Red, Australians do have that reputation.  Well-earned in my experience, I might add.  :Cheeky:



Member Awards ()

#72 Thrash

Thrash

    not as gay

  • Former Member
  • 9559 posts
  • Location:Poconos, PA
  • Ruler Name:Thrash
  • Nation Name:Machas
  • IRC Nick:Thrash[Invicta]
  • Nation Link

Posted 16 July 2013 - 08:53 PM

Hmm, a one-way trip to Australia will only cost me $1,511.



Member Awards ()

#73 Redezra

Redezra

    ~>:BAMF:<~

  • Invicta: Knight
  • 7728 posts
  • Gender:Sentient artificial intelligence - identifies as female
  • Location::D
  • Ruler Name:Redezra
  • Nation Name:Jorostopia
  • IRC Nick:Redezra
  • Alliance Name:Invicta
  • Nation Link


Posted 16 July 2013 - 09:07 PM

Just because you don't understand our culture doesn't mean it's bad.

 

Anyway, point is, I wasn't being racist, I was talking about something else entirely.



#74 Haflinger

Haflinger

    Flipper

  • Foreign Diplomat
  • 10259 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Ruler Name:Haflinger
  • Nation Name:Llonach
  • IRC Nick:Haflinger
  • Nation Link

Posted 16 July 2013 - 09:08 PM

Red, you've been posting racist crap throughout this thread. Shall we review?

 

Yeah... everyone I know agrees with me.

Everyone you know is Australian.

 

You can't call this racial profiling if the suspects involved in the recent thefts in the neighborhood were young black males.

They weren't. There were no suspects.

 

I think, regardless of any and all dissenting opinion, that justice has been served. I honestly believe it is Trayvon's own bloody fault for attacking a guy in the first place. He didn't have the need to punch Zimmerman, let alone pummel him on the ground. This is entirely a result of his own stupid actions, and I feel sorry that Zimmerman has to live with any guilt whatsoever.

There's no evidence that Trayvon attacked Zimmerman, and plenty of evidence that the exact opposite happened. You, like the 5 white and one hispanic jurors in Florida, are assuming that Trayvon attacked because he was black.



Member Awards ()

#75 Redezra

Redezra

    ~>:BAMF:<~

  • Invicta: Knight
  • 7728 posts
  • Gender:Sentient artificial intelligence - identifies as female
  • Location::D
  • Ruler Name:Redezra
  • Nation Name:Jorostopia
  • IRC Nick:Redezra
  • Alliance Name:Invicta
  • Nation Link


Posted 16 July 2013 - 09:34 PM

I'm not assuming shit. I'm stating that the evidence showed that Trayvon attacked first. That was a deeeerrrm move.

 

Please read the reddit overview before attacking my position with misinformation, that's an impartial listing of the arguments and evidence presented. Hint hint, the evidence is on the side of the defence.



#76 Redezra

Redezra

    ~>:BAMF:<~

  • Invicta: Knight
  • 7728 posts
  • Gender:Sentient artificial intelligence - identifies as female
  • Location::D
  • Ruler Name:Redezra
  • Nation Name:Jorostopia
  • IRC Nick:Redezra
  • Alliance Name:Invicta
  • Nation Link


Posted 16 July 2013 - 09:43 PM

Now to continue, so you don't delete my nice post.

 

What the fuck Haf, really, you're going to attack me and my entire fucking country for being racist. And why? Cause you can't win an argument and everything I say just hits you right in the "Oh no, can't be a racist" hotspot. You're so politically correct it's sad. It's not sad actually, it's pathetic. Pathetic that you would try to throw one of the most upstanding nations in the world under a bus for your own little misguided worldview.

 

Misguided? Did I mean that? Am I racist? No. I'm bloody realistic. I stick with what is known. Rather than what one would like to be true. For example, the earth is round, humanity is an insignifigant speck, evolution is a fact and black people emperically commit more crimes than white (in the USA at very least). You can't even stand that sentence. I bet. You're disregarding it as racism. Well what if I told you that it's not their fault, and if white people were stuck in the same socio-economic zone, and semi-permanent cycle of economic opression, they'd commit that many crimes too? Huh? Can you deal with the truth haf? Can you accept that Zimmerman deserves to be left in peace, Haf? Can you see that I just say it as it is, Haf?

 

No, don't bother replying. It's going to be more politically correct, unrealistic, misguided bullshit anyway. People are so bloody predictable. I'd be upset if there wasn't some kind of global control structure in place.



#77 Thrash

Thrash

    not as gay

  • Former Member
  • 9559 posts
  • Location:Poconos, PA
  • Ruler Name:Thrash
  • Nation Name:Machas
  • IRC Nick:Thrash[Invicta]
  • Nation Link

Posted 16 July 2013 - 09:54 PM

Red, you've been posting racist crap throughout this thread. Shall we review?

 

Yeah... everyone I know agrees with me.

Everyone you know is Australian.

She knows me, and I agree with her and I don't live in Australia.

 

You can't call this racial profiling if the suspects involved in the recent thefts in the neighborhood were young black males.

They weren't. There were no suspects.

 

Haf, it's a proven fact. There were reports of young black males robbing in the neighborhood. None of that can even be disputed. Did you even watch or listen to anything about the case or did you just put your blinders on and think what you want to think?

I think, regardless of any and all dissenting opinion, that justice has been served. I honestly believe it is Trayvon's own bloody fault for attacking a guy in the first place. He didn't have the need to punch Zimmerman, let alone pummel him on the ground. This is entirely a result of his own stupid actions, and I feel sorry that Zimmerman has to live with any guilt whatsoever.

There's no evidence that Trayvon attacked Zimmerman, and plenty of evidence that the exact opposite happened. You, like the 5 white and one hispanic jurors in Florida, are assuming that Trayvon attacked because he was black.

 

There is 0 evidence that Zimmerman attacked Trayvon first. And now you're gonna bash on the jurors? Holy shit Haf, the white guilt is strong with you. I really wonder what trial you were following where you've gotten all this disinformation from?



Member Awards ()

#78 rotty

rotty

    The First 2 time Puppy President

  • President Emeritus
  • 13429 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:West Coast is Best Coast you Bitch
  • BJ Points:69696969
  • Ruler Name:rotty
  • Nation Name:Giggle
  • IRC Nick:rotty
  • Alliance Name:~ Invicta ~
  • Nation Link



Posted 16 July 2013 - 10:19 PM

Rotty stops all name calling right here.   :threaten:



Member Awards ()

#79 Redezra

Redezra

    ~>:BAMF:<~

  • Invicta: Knight
  • 7728 posts
  • Gender:Sentient artificial intelligence - identifies as female
  • Location::D
  • Ruler Name:Redezra
  • Nation Name:Jorostopia
  • IRC Nick:Redezra
  • Alliance Name:Invicta
  • Nation Link


Posted 16 July 2013 - 11:09 PM

Neccisary evil.



#80 Haflinger

Haflinger

    Flipper

  • Foreign Diplomat
  • 10259 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Ruler Name:Haflinger
  • Nation Name:Llonach
  • IRC Nick:Haflinger
  • Nation Link

Posted 17 July 2013 - 08:42 AM

I'm not reading Fox News, that's the difference right there.

 

Let's face facts: A white man killed a black man. Five white people (and one hispanic) said it was OK. So that makes it legal. That's how things work in the American South.

 

The evidence that Zimmerman attacked Trayvon first is simple: Zimmerman approached Trayvon, not the other way around. There's actually no physical evidence either way, but Zimmerman initiated the confrontation. Usually when one person is stalking another person in the street, then it's the stalker, not the stalkee, who attacks.



Member Awards ()


0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users