46 replies to this topic

[Redezra]

Right, so, here's the deal


Back in ye olde times, the white folk met the Aboriginies, and both sides were like "Hey we can totally share". And we did. And it was cool.

Then there was a change of public opinion, probably because the Aboriginies were at war with one another and were "clearly" savages and it was our job to fix it. So there were some incidents. Eventually, there was a particularily bad one called the Stolen Generation, where the Australian Gov, in an attempt to stop the general level of violence, drunkenness, and general incompetance of the aboriginal population, forcibly took an entire generation of aboriginal children and put them into institutionalised care. This didn't end well (obviously), but it had the effect of educating an entire generation of aboriginal people, we now had aboriginal lawyers, doctors, skilled men and women. And they were pissed off (and rightly so).

So our government took the rather remarkable step of saying sorry (which is better than most colonies of britain). And to prove they meant it, they began instituting support structures for aboriginal people, making sure that they can easily integrate into our society. They have a guaranteed pension, they get homes, we bend over backwards to make sure we stay in line with what their culture wants, we change *anything* and *everything* when catering to them.

Of course, as Thrash would happily tell you, giving free handouts to people for too long causes problems. And basically we were giving them free money. Free everything actually. Problem? Their culture was still a stone age tribal society prior to western intervention, so it did not integrate. They are totally communist, they don't make money for themselves, they make money for their family. Their family live together, and they do not have a concept of value (well, at least, not the ones that have been educated).

Basically, they are not encouraged to go to school, because its not in line with their cultural teachings, they don't work, because they have no qualifications, and why would you work, they get more money than students do to study with for doing nothing. They don't look after property given to them, such as houses, because they don't understand value, and they've never been taught, *and* if they destroy a house and the furniture within to make a campfire, they just get given a new one.... Do you see where this is going?

Now because of this, many of them feel entitled, and have nothing to do. Many of them turn to drugs, and alcohol, frequently at a young age. They are drunk, violent, have a sense of entitlement, and in some cases even see going to prison as a rite of passage (my father and his father and his father went to prison, etc). Every social group in Australia can agree on one thing, and that's that we are afraid of the aboriginal population. And we like eachother. Heck I know families of Pakistanis and Indians that hang out with eachother, I know israelis and arabs that hang out (like at the end of Zohan, good film, most of australia is like that). We have this wonderful "We don't hate anyone, everyone is a cool dude if you look at it right" thing... and everyone, absolutely everyone, would agree that if you see a group of aboriginal men walking down the street, that you should get the hell out of there.

Trust me, we aren't oppressing anyone.

Any questions so far?

[Octavian]

tl;dr

[Dan2680]

Kinda sounds like native Americans here in Canada... at least in southern Ontario.

Sell cheap smokes, get drunk 100% of the time, wreck the shit we give them (we gave them an entire army base with everything they needed and they destroyed it), sniff rubbing alcohol, go to jail, abuse the school system (they all get to go for free, as many times as they want), cause riots and blockade roads/railways but its all ok apparently. AND THEY DON'T HAVE TO PAY TAXES >.<

We don't give them enough though, apparently.

[Redezra]

Yeah, close enough. Big thing is we never tried to wipe our indigenous population out, we just tried to help them, yes it was misguided at the time, but the basic principal was to help, not to injure.

[Haflinger]

Can you explain how the fact that there isn't a single Tasmanian aboriginal left alive fits into that scheme of things?

You fought numerous wars against them. The Black War is one of the classic examples of genocide.

[Redezra]

Can you explain how the fact that there isn't a single Tasmanian aboriginal left alive fits into that scheme of things?

You fought numerous wars against them. The Black War is one of the classic examples of genocide.

I can. Tasmania decided (seperately from any body of governance) that they would simply remove the indigenous population. They succeeded.

Which is why we do not approve of any of Tasmania.


No, tbh, it was way in the past. We aren't the colonial backwater we were back then. And hey, our government has apologized, and continues to work to integrate them into our society.

What happened in the past stays in the past, today's Australia is the multicultural paradise, colonial Australia was the xenophobic crazy colony. So what happened then is irrelevant to now, the only thing that *does* matter is the Stolen Generation thing, and the continuing attempt to integrate aboriginal culture into our own.

[Haflinger]

Your government ended the rather infamous segregation policy in 1967. This isn't ancient history we're talking about here.

And then ... let's talk Mulruji. That was, what, eight years ago? Still no punishment for the murderer in that case.

[Redezra]

Segregation was an attempt to seperate their culture from ours, then we got rid of it when it didn't work.

As for Mulruji? This sort of thing happens quite a bit, and it's rarely actually the officer's fault. There's a cultural dislike bordering on hatred of the australian government, and it results in their going our of their way to provoke, and attack police officers. Not a day goes by where I do not hear of at least one attack, robbery, mugging, etc perpetuated by an aboriginal. A very large chunk of them do not respect the rule of law, and do not respect personal rights.

You might see this as a gross injustice, but what we see is what we always have seen. Not because we have been told but because it is perpetuated against all of us, personally. We do not opress or attack the aboriginals in our community, but they oft attack us. Murder, rape, steal, assault for no reason (and I literally mean no reason). We do the opposite of what you imply. And you have the gall to tell us "Oh you're oppressing them"? After the money we've spent? The effort? The fact that *billions* of taxpayer dollars go *directly* into their pockets and they do *nothing* with it aside from causing massive problems in our community? There's exactly one way to respond do this.

Fuck you. Fuck you for being so god damn fucking idealistic. We've done everything we've fucking can and I swear more. We are completely committed to integration, to making sure every one of our citizens get a fair share no matter what.

I've told you we are not responsible for their actions, and we do more for them than for any demographic. That is the fucking opposite to oppression you self righteous, ignorant moron. AND YET THEY STILL CAUSE TROUBLE.

Who's the masters of tolerance, huh?

[Thrash]

Wow, you're lucky you don't live here. You'd be branded 100% racist.

[Evil Rudekker]

So we white people fucked shit up totally and irreversibly. For generations. And now we complain that the various black and copper-skinned peoples that we fucked up are still fucked up.

Jesus Christ, I belong to the stupidest goddamned race.

Edited by Evil Rudekker, 19 September 2012 - 05:50 AM.

[Haflinger]

Segregation was an attempt to seperate their culture from ours, then we got rid of it when it didn't work.

It was an attempt to keep them in their place.

By "culture" you mean things like electricity; this is the part you're missing out on.

As for Mulruji? This sort of thing happens quite a bit, and it's rarely actually the officer's fault. There's a cultural dislike bordering on hatred of the australian government, and it results in their going our of their way to provoke, and attack police officers. Not a day goes by where I do not hear of at least one attack, robbery, mugging, etc perpetuated by an aboriginal. A very large chunk of them do not respect the rule of law, and do not respect personal rights.

Yeah, of course they don't respect the rule of law. They don't have it.

When people charged with being in law enforcement turn to murdering the people they're supposed to protect, and they're allowed to get away with it, then there's no rule of law. That's the rule of the jungle.

And yes - that's what your coroner found. Mulruji was murdered. The jury said it was OK.

Your government did apologize for the Ward incident, of course that was officially an accident, and not a systematic attempt to cull the population.

Wow, you're lucky you don't live here. You'd be branded 100% racist.

She's Australian, they're all like that. Which other country that calls itself a western country keeps immigrants in camps in foreign countries?

[ᗅᗺᗷᗅ]

Back in ye olde times, the white folk met the Aboriginies, and both sides were like "Hey we can totally share". And we did. And it was cool.

Yeah... That's not exactly how I've read it. Check out The Fatal Shore. I won't lie, it's a lengthy tome, but it's considered one of the seminal works on Australian history. And it's a lot less charitable in its depiction of early contact between whites and aboriginals.

[Redezra]

Wow, you're lucky you don't live here. You'd be branded 100% racist.

That depends? What exactly about? I'm seeing a lot of seamless unity and not a lot of discrimination.

So we white people fucked shit up totally and irreversibly. For generations. And now we complain that the various black and copper-skinned peoples that we fucked up are still fucked up.

Jesus Christ, I belong to the stupidest goddamned race.

See, we could fix it, but we don't want to offend anyone, cause otherwise we'd be (oh wait for it) racist. And we are damn well within our rights to complain, it's a constant downer.

Segregation was an attempt to seperate their culture from ours, then we got rid of it when it didn't work.

It was an attempt to keep them in their place.

By "culture" you mean things like electricity; this is the part you're missing out on.

As for Mulruji? This sort of thing happens quite a bit, and it's rarely actually the officer's fault. There's a cultural dislike bordering on hatred of the australian government, and it results in their going our of their way to provoke, and attack police officers. Not a day goes by where I do not hear of at least one attack, robbery, mugging, etc perpetuated by an aboriginal. A very large chunk of them do not respect the rule of law, and do not respect personal rights.

Yeah, of course they don't respect the rule of law. They don't have it.

When people charged with being in law enforcement turn to murdering the people they're supposed to protect, and they're allowed to get away with it, then there's no rule of law. That's the rule of the jungle.

Ok Haf, now you've gone too far.
How dare you insult the brave men and women of our police force, who have in some cases died protecting us from these things. You don't know shit. Worse than that, you don't know shit and you think you can just arbitrarily call heroes villains. Fuck you. Fuck your short sighted, uninformed, idiotic idealism. You cannot comment like that unless you have fucking lived here. You shouldn't be able to say shit.

And yes - that's what your coroner found. Mulruji was murdered. The jury said it was OK.

Your government did apologize for the Ward incident, of course that was officially an accident, and not a systematic attempt to cull the population.

Wow, you're lucky you don't live here. You'd be branded 100% racist.

She's Australian, they're all like that. Which other country that calls itself a western country keeps immigrants in camps in foreign countries?

I still don't understand how we're racist. We do not discriminate against any other "race" than the Aboriginies, and even then it's positive discrimination. They get more than anyone else

And get the hell away from the Immigrant problem. You don't have the ability to get your head around that mindfuck of a problem. Because unfortunately, there is no simple solution for that.

Back in ye olde times, the white folk met the Aboriginies, and both sides were like "Hey we can totally share". And we did. And it was cool.

Yeah... That's not exactly how I've read it. Check out The Fatal Shore. I won't lie, it's a lengthy tome, but it's considered one of the seminal works on Australian history. And it's a lot less charitable in its depiction of early contact between whites and aboriginals.

<I put my hands up> Whatever. I've heard of the Fatal Shore, and I've also heard of the bias that's gone into it. The point is that Australia was a fairly backward, unintegrated nation for a long, long time, and effectively this is pre-history. We don't care what happened, it's not important, or at least shouldn't be important. We just want everyone to get along now. That's what we do, we merge, and assimilate. We have no culture but that of everyone elses. And yes, before we went down this path, Australia was a lot more racist. It was extremely racist, I'll give that. But it's not now. We aren't like that.

The fact that you all think that this is us opressing anyone, is an incredible, very personal, insult. Now I've tried to explain to you that our one blemish is not because of our attack, but you won't have any of it. You're wrong. You're all wrong. You don't seem to understand that we are totally committed to making sure everyone can live with everyone else, that our immigration policy is based on the idea that we are maintaining our tolerant nation, by being careful on an individual basis on who we take in.

And I swear to god, the next person who calls me, or my country, racist has another thing coming.

I wish I could get you all to come here, to see what it's like, to understand what I'm talking about... but I can't.

[Thrash]

"struck a nerve" comes to mind here.

[Redezra]

"struck a nerve" comes to mind here.

Yeah, cause you're calling the least racist, most tolerant country on earth racist and oppressive.

That's insulting, and shows such ignorance.

[Justavictim82]

Redezra... what is the point of this? Is this an "I'm better than you" thread? I have read a bit about the history of Australia. What you speak of is madness. So an Aboriginal walks into your house and steals one of your most valued keepsakes.. you are supposed to let him just take it? I mean don't get me wrong.. what Australia is doing is far better than say South Africa when it comes to making reperations to the people it has oppressed but this policy borders on insanity.

[The Dark Empire]

Redezra... what is the point of this? Is this an "I'm better than you" thread? I have read a bit about the history of Australia. What you speak of is madness. So an Aboriginal walks into your house and steals one of your most valued keepsakes.. you are supposed to let him just take it? I mean don't get me wrong.. what Australia is doing is far better than say South Africa when it comes to making reperations to the people it has oppressed but this policy borders on insanity.

Lord James teaches a thing or two about South Africa. Right now South Africa is a bad place. Andd guess who has power. The Blacks. They aren't doing much to help their own people. ESKOM the power company is a piece of **** and the power went out all the time when I lived there. People ran rampant and could still from you and you couldn't even shoot them in your home otherwise they would sue you. Yeah...but the animals are cool.

[Redezra]

Redezra... what is the point of this? Is this an "I'm better than you" thread? I have read a bit about the history of Australia. What you speak of is madness. So an Aboriginal walks into your house and steals one of your most valued keepsakes.. you are supposed to let him just take it? I mean don't get me wrong.. what Australia is doing is far better than say South Africa when it comes to making reperations to the people it has oppressed but this policy borders on insanity.

Nope. Somebody in another thread, I believe it was Haf, made the idiotic statement that we deserved the recent Islamic riots because A.) "Australia is racist" and B.) "Clearly you oppress the Aboriginies"

[ᗅᗺᗷᗅ]

"struck a nerve" comes to mind here.

Yeah, cause you're calling the least racist, most tolerant country on earth racist and oppressive.

What are you talking about? No one said anything bad about Sweden.

[PrinceVegeta]

"struck a nerve" comes to mind here.

Yeah, cause you're calling the least racist, most tolerant country on earth racist and oppressive.

What are you talking about? No one said anything bad about Sweden.

Sweden is amazing. Wish I could take another trip there again. Nice cold weather. Nice people. And the women...
The Scandinavian area's are amazing.