27 replies to this topic

[Thrash]

[ᗅᗺᗷᗅ]

That's every major power's foreign policy.  The world is not static; foreign policy has to adapt to situations as they develop.  Just because someone used to be your ally does not mean that they will continue to be your ally in the future.  Same with enemies.  The US's biggest shortcoming, in my opinion, is its almost childlike belief in democracy as the cure-all for everything.  It's not.  Democracy is the end result of a long and often painful process.  You can't just hand it to a country that is not ready and expect it to work.

[Ellis]

That's every major power's foreign policy.  The world is not static; foreign policy has to adapt to situations as they develop.  Just because someone used to be your ally does not mean that they will continue to be your ally in the future.  Same with enemies.  The US's biggest shortcoming, in my opinion, is its almost childlike belief in democracy as the cure-all for everything.  It's not.  Democracy is the end result of a long and often painful process.  You can't just hand it to a country that is not ready and expect it to work.

 

It worked for us, I just don't understand why it's not working for these damn a~rabs...

[Rogal Dorn]

It worked for us, I just don't understand why it's not working for these damn a~rabs...

i'll quote this so you can reread it.
 

The US's biggest shortcoming, in my opinion, is its almost childlike belief in democracy as the cure-all for everything. It's not. Democracy is the end result of a long and often painful process. You can't just hand it to a country that is not ready and expect it to work.

Also. not everyone wants democracy. Try and install a democracy in Saudi Arabia. I dare you Those people would lose their fucking minds and you'd end up with an Iran-style government where religious leaders weild absolute power and elections would be for mayors and shit and that would be about it. The rest would be appointed positions given to people who were loyal to the regime and not the most capable person for the job.

Edited by Rogal 'trouble' Dorn, 19 June 2014 - 04:26 PM.

[ᗅᗺᗷᗅ]

Well, the common people of Saudi Arabia, especially the young people, would love democracy.  But that does not mean they are ready for it.  As you say, it would probably turn bad tout de suite.

[Rogal Dorn]

Well, the common people of Saudi Arabia, especially the young people, would love democracy.  But that does not mean they are ready for it.  As you say, it would probably turn bad tout de suite.

exactly my point. the country isnt ready for it, so it wouldnt work.

[ᗅᗺᗷᗅ]

Agreed.  Unfortunately, the United States' experiences with Germany and Japan after WW2 made us believe we could install successful democracies anywhere.  But we conveniently ignore the fact that Germany and Japan each had long traditions of democratic and pseudo-democratic institutions long before American troops ever got there.  The country we now call Saudi Arabia, on the other hand, was an ever-shifting mosaic ruled by warring tribes less than a century ago.  In fact it's only called Saudi Arabia because the al-Saud family triumphed in its long struggle for dominance.  Had their rivals the al-Rashid family won it would be called Rashidi Arabia.  All they have known are warlords and absolute monarchs.  They have no democratic traditions.

[Ellis]

i'll quote this so you can reread it.
 

 

I'm not sure what I'm missing here... 

[Rogal Dorn]

I'm not sure what I'm missing here... 

then im unsure how you are confused as to why democracy wont work for "a~rabs"

[Ellis]

then im unsure how you are confused as to why democracy wont work for "a~rabs"

 

That's not what I said If anything, I suppose I was mocking the (usually American, but not always) belief that you can just drop in ready-packaged democracy to a place with no prior experience, and expect it to take.

[Manoka]

I'm pretty sure democracy will work fine for everyone. 

 

If they don't want it, they can decide against it, let's let them choose. 

Edited by Manoka, 19 June 2014 - 05:10 PM.

[ᗅᗺᗷᗅ]

That's just what we were saying.  I believe the "a-rabs" comment was something we call "sarcasm" in this country.  Do you have sarcasm where you live, Ellis?  Or just weird flightless birds?

[Manoka]

Just FYI the oil is going to France and China and it would have been like 1% of our oil supplies, at best anyways. 

 

Heck, if we invaded Canada we'd be better off; false flag event, blame it on Canadians terrorists, invade a country that is A- Richer B- Geographically closer C- has a ton more oil D- has a smaller military. 

 

 

It's a win-win-win. 

 

All those people who thought the war was over oil in Iraq haven't rebelled and created some resistance unit, so just because it's white people I don't think anyone would be rushing to defend them, especially if there were false flag events by "Canadians" over the whole world. 

 

 

We'd act like liberators and blam, same old same old, now Canada is the newest state.

 

We could just annex Mexico.

Edited by Manoka, 19 June 2014 - 05:13 PM.

[Thrash]

I'm pretty sure democracy will work fine for everyone. 

 

If they don't want it, they can decide against it, let's let them choose. 

 

If they don't want it, we force it upon them, period.

 

It'd be nice if someone forced us to become a democracy.

[King Biscuit]

If they don't want it, we force it upon them, period.

 

It'd be nice if someone forced us to become a democracy.

 

[Manoka]

Well it's not completely pure. 

 

I mean there's also a little bit of constitutional republic in there and some presidential and congressional stylizations. 

[Thrash]

and executive orders and not caring what the un-rich think, and..  so on and so on.

[Manoka]

Executive orders are pretty neat. 

 

We did elect the president after all, but it's a representation and all that. 

 

 

Also there's still a vote that includes everyone and not the rich, so yeah... 

[Thrash]

If voting made any difference, they wouldn't let us do it.

 

-Mark Twain

[Manoka]

If voting made any difference, they wouldn't let us do it.

 

-Mark Twain

The problem with this mentality is that it produces a catch 22. 

Edited by Manoka, 19 June 2014 - 06:56 PM.